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Write some software, give it away for free

nonogra.ph

241–250 of 285 posts

Re: Write some software, give it away for free

#241
i tried re-kickstarting my coding hobby with ai, i started with chatgpt, worked my way to openclaw, put it down when i discovered i wasn't touching code anymore and that took something essential out of it. analog is the only truly rewarding lifestyle left. i nabbed 4lb of brussells sprouts at the city farmers market for a buck and spent several hours prepping, cooking, and freezing them, by the time i was done i was like, you know i know why people open restaurants now.

it's not that i don't have any interesting ideas, it's that it's just not fun enough to chase digital dreams anymore. why build my own text editor on top of my own vt100 abstractions if i'm never gonna use it? i may get around to building a kitchen inventory app or even just using the prototype i have now, but that's only going to be useful if i'm cooking for a crowd and not just me.

Re: Write some software, give it away for free

#242
I keep noticing a wrong narrative when it comes to FOSS software. Comparing software to traditional labouring jobs is quite pointless: you designed and built a car for yourself, building a second one for someone else has costs; you cleaned your own private garden, cleaning someone else's garden has costs; repairing every bike, however sophisticated you are, has costs (Just listing the narratives I see on this page). Giving away a software you already have wrote for yourself has almost 0 cost, and I think this is the main motivation (at least at the beginning) of most FOSS software: the developer themselves needs to use it anyway. This uniqueness is what I consider one of the main reason why FOSS can succeed in the first place unlike in almost any other engineering fields. In a sense, you can say it is exactly what Marx call "all sources of collective wealth flowing abundantly".

This is very different from: I see an ongoing demand for X, and thus I work to provide a product that supplies X. In this case, naturally, I will not want to give it away for free, even if it is software.

Re: Write some software, give it away for free

#244
post #37

Or don't. I've done both, published OSS projects and sold some software. The level of entitlement in some comments I received on the OSS side was pretty crazy at times. While with the paid software, all of the interactions I had were so much more constructive. YMMV, but willingness to pay is a great filter.

I've regularly heard something similar said of consulting work, too. Many people new to the game worry about charging too much, because if a client is paying more then surely the pressure will be higher. Instead they end up experiencing the opposite: charging a higher rate tends to get them a better kind of client. I'm not sure what the exact lesson is here. Something about stingy people not being nice to work with,…

That was my experience. When I first started consulting 20 years ago I stupidly charged $40/hour because I was young and dumb I stupidly discounted the time it took to find clients (and things like health insurance, etc...). I quickly adjusted and started charging $120/hour. I got much better clients and the projects I worked on became that much more interesting.

In my experience charging too little is one of the biggest mistake to do when starting.

Re: Write some software, give it away for free

#245
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So helping them with what they want could mean that you've just tipped the scale enough for hundreds or thousands of people to become new customers. Sure, if the request is reasonable and sensical. I entertain those and even help them formulate the request better if needed. That’s true of both commercial and open-source. But I’m more talking about the users who demand features. Those who say the tool needs to have…

No other customers asking for the feature is not a signal that its not wanted by many others. Other people suggesting the same thing is a terrible measurement, as suggestions from paying users is already an incredibly small amount of users and some users may just thing it would be nice but not enough to warrant sending in a request. For example: it would be nice if I had a one-click export of my favorites on HN to a…

Suggestions from paying users are the only suggestions which have any value, since they represent the type of people who are willing to pay for the software.

If you have users who aren't paying you, there is no reason at all to pay any heed to what they say.

Re: Write some software, give it away for free

#246

Across the decades of my career in high-tech, I found that repeating the pattern of "Create something you're personally passionate about, then give it away" has directly led to quite remarkable success - not every time, but a surprising amount. Admittedly, I found this out accidentally, since at first it wasn't exactly by choice. It was just what ended up happening after all my original plans failed miserably :-) Whi…

You're sculpting out a bit of a zietgeist that has some accuracy and nostalgia to it, but I do think there's more to it. Starting a business and selling software can be a bigger trust signal than free or open source for some kinds of things, for both individuals and businesses depending on what it is.

"I don't have enough confidence in this thing to sell it", or "there might be something wrong with it and I don't want to be on the emotional hook" with actual customers to worry about it. It's not necessarily those things, but those doubts can exist.

There's also a subtle rejection of patent risk in open source, as if you are less encumbered with the stress around having to research what might step on some company's toes. Companies can solve some of that risk with professional liability insurance.

Realistically, I think a lot of people just don't want to run a company, getting committed to something they can't drop at a moment's notice, or they don't know where to start and it's easier to build reputation rather than dollars. It's more complicated than not doing it in many cases, and less complicated than not doing in other cases.

The other side of your argument is that almost none of the big things got into your pocket without some company trying to run a business which gave them the capital to direct that capital towards change. The number of examples of open source or free things that wouldn't exist today if they didn't sit on top of the foundation of a business making money is huge. The world would suck more.

Let me frame it like this. Let's say there is a non-profit organization. The mission is X. They are mildly successful at their mission. They believe in it, they're passionate. It's mostly local, mostly volunteer, the amount of time dedicated to it by all is constrained, budgets are constrained. Demographics mean the people who were naturally interested in the mission are fading off and younger people aren't as captivated by the non-profit.

Meanwhile, some company who has excess capital yet believed in a similar mission achieved 9x the success in that same non-profit motivation, because they could direct the energies they've gathered towards a purpose.

It doesn't have to be an emotional or moral struggle between whether people should be low energy potential and poor, but idealistically purposed, or high energy potential and rich, but lacking in any sort of philosophy as to what goodness is.

We went through too many years of communism in the world that paints dollar bills as having evil fangs on them and I think it rubbed off a little on the internet and some open source communities.

Fundamentally, it comes down to logic. Many things rely on someone else's money to become a success or catch on. In terms of sustainability, in many ways that applies to software as well. If some idea can economically sustain the personal investment into itself, it might grow to reach its potential in a way some weekend warrior project does not after it gets discarded.

At the same time, it is nice and liberating to simply do something fun and interesting, to put it out there like the demo scene or like when bit torrent dropped or some new compression algorithm. When those kinds of things excite you, it makes you want others to feel that way too. It just depends what you're after.

Re: Write some software, give it away for free

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the hell would it be perverse to want to get rich from something you created? Do you have some kind of right to other people's creative output now? This greed after what other people have seems to be completely boundless.

I don't think it is a crazy opinion to think the desire to be rich is morally troubling. It is a desire to consume more than your share of the world's resources.

And if you invent or create something which brings a lot of value to other people, then your share should be just as big as everybody else's?

30% of the food eaten on the planet by people today is grown thanks to a German scientist who invented a way to extract fertilizer from air. He is directly responsible for the ability of billions of people to live and survive. What would be his fair compensation?

Re: Write some software, give it away for free

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in my home town, we used to have free events all the time. Outdoor concerts, theatre, even indoor concerts and festivals. They were almost always full to the brim. Anecdotes are fun, but not much more than that.

If the artist is someone already famous, the people will always show up. With a less famous artist price is perceived as a signal. So if it is free, people would think that the show is not worth bothering.

I think there's a pretty big cultural bias driving assumptions in your position.

Re: Write some software, give it away for free

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the hell would it be perverse to want to get rich from something you created? Do you have some kind of right to other people's creative output now? This greed after what other people have seems to be completely boundless.

I don't think it is a crazy opinion to think the desire to be rich is morally troubling. It is a desire to consume more than your share of the world's resources.

Easy to say that, isn’t it? I can almost guarantee that YOU also want and do consume much more than an average human on this planet. Never mind the fact that humans consume more than their share of the planets resources anyway. Whatever the definition of “their share” is.
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