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DeepSeek v4

api-docs.deepseek.com

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Re: DeepSeek v4

#241

Post by oceanplexian »

elefanten wrote: post #208
b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American companies want a scan of your asshole for the privilege of paying to access their models, and unapologetically admit to storing, analyzing, training on, and freely giving your data to any authorities if requested. Chinese ulteriority is hypothetical, American is blatant.

It’s not remotely hypothetical you’d have to be living under a rock to believe that. And the fusion with a one-party state government that doesn’t tolerate huge swathes of thoughtspace being freely discussed is completely streamlined, not mediated by any guardrails or accountability. This “no harm to me” meme about a foreign totalitarian government (with plenty of incentive to run influence ops on foreigners) hooveri…

> And the fusion with a one-party state government that doesn’t tolerate huge swathes of thoughtspace being freely discussed

That would be a great argument if the American models weren’t so heavily censored.

The Chinese model might dodge a question if I ask it about 1-2 specific Chinese cultural issues but then it also doesn’t moralize me at every turn because I asked it to use a piece of security software.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#242

Post by spaceman_2020 »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #70
nthypes wrote: post #5

https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V4-Pro/blob/main... Model was released and it's amazing. Frontier level (better than Opus 4.6) at a fraction of the cost.

I don't think we need to compare models to Opus anymore. Opus users don't care about other models, as they're convinced Opus will be better forever. And non-Opus users don't want the expense, lock-in or limits. As a non-Opus user, I'll continue to use the cheapest fastest models that get my job done, which (for me anyway) is still MiniMax M2.5. I occasionally try a newer, more expensive model, and I get the same resu…

I found Opus 4.7 to be actually worse than Opus 4.6 for my use case

Substantially worse at following instructions and overoptimized for maximizing token usage

Re: DeepSeek v4

#243

Post by orbital-decay »

>we implement end-to-end, bitwise batch-invariant, and deterministic kernels with minimal performance overhead

Pretty cool, I think they're the first to guarantee determinism with the fixed seed or at the temperature 0. Google came close but never guaranteed it AFAIK. DeepSeek show their roots - it may not strictly be a SotA model, but there's a ton of low-level optimizations nobody else pays attention to.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#244

Post by lykr0n »

throwa356262 wrote: post #217

Seriously, why can't huge companies like OpenAI and Google produce documentation that is half this good?? https://api-docs.deepseek.com/guides/thinking_mode No BS, just a concise description of exactly what I need to write my own agent.

It's because they're optimizing for a different problem.

Western Models are optimizing to be used as an interchangeable product. Chinese models are being optimizing to be built upon.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#245

Post by esperent »

ant6n wrote: post #96
Aliabid94 wrote: post #14

MMLU-Pro: Gemini-3.1-Pro at 91.0 Opus-4.6 at 89.1 GPT-5.4, Kimi2.6, and DS-V4-Pro tied at 87.5 Pretty impressive

Funny how Gemini is theoretically the best -- but in practice all the bugs in the interface mean I don't want to use it anymore. The worst is it forgets context (and lies about it), but it's very unreliable at reading pdfs (and lies about it). There's also no branch, so once the context is lost/polluted, you have to start projects over and build up the context from scratch again.

Yeah if I could use Gemini with pi.dev that would be my choice. But Gemini CLI is just so, so bad.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#247

Post by spaceman_2020 »

onchainintel wrote: post #17
nthypes wrote: post #5

https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V4-Pro/blob/main... Model was released and it's amazing. Frontier level (better than Opus 4.6) at a fraction of the cost.

How does it compare to Opus 4.7? I've been immersed in 4.7 all week participating in the Anthropic Opus 4.7 hackathon and it's pretty impressive even if it's ravenous from a token perspective compared to 4.6

Tbh I was more productive with 4.6 than ever before and if AI progress locks in permanently at 4.6 tier, I’d be pretty happy

Re: DeepSeek v4

#249

Post by Ifkaluva »

xnx wrote: post #173

Such different time now than early 2025 when people thought Deepaeek was going to kill the market for Nvidia.

They might still kill the market for NVIDIA, if future releases prioritize Huawei chips

Re: DeepSeek v4

#250

Post by raincole »

lykr0n wrote: post #244
throwa356262 wrote: post #217

Seriously, why can't huge companies like OpenAI and Google produce documentation that is half this good?? https://api-docs.deepseek.com/guides/thinking_mode No BS, just a concise description of exactly what I need to write my own agent.

It's because they're optimizing for a different problem. Western Models are optimizing to be used as an interchangeable product. Chinese models are being optimizing to be built upon.

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