241–250 of 286 posts
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This isn’t accurate. The majority of Jews in Israel are Mizrahi. The vast majority of them left the Muslim-majority countries during the Arab–Israeli conflict, in what is known as the Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries.
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Please don't fulminate on Hacker News.
I would consider anyone that did not have a similar “are we the baddies” reaction to those posts to have a severe personality disorder.
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> is revisionist because it paints second-class status for Jews as "peace". This is ridiculous, a fiction akin to "separate but equal" without even the pretense of equality. Let's agree for a moment that there was intense bigotry and prejudice, as I'm very sure there was some amount. As we can also agree, there is human tribalism alive and well to this day between people of minimal or great differences. Separate but…
(Looks like I can reply now) I feel I've pretty clearly answered your question of "what 'revisionist' means in that context". Dhimmitude is absolutely not a basis for peace. If it helps, think of Zionism as a civil rights movement, but more aligned with Malcom X than MLK. I don't believe it's incidental that there have always been Jewish settlements, it's exactly the point: Muslims were fine with Jewish settlements s…
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What part? eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ott... ?
All of it? Islam literally calls for violence and oppression of anyone who isn’t a Muslim. It’s literally in the Quran. Islam spread to many of the regions it is now in through invasion and genocidal violence. For example, they colonized India before Europeans did. They have completely erased the previous cultures and ethnic groups of the North African countries. Etc.
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> economic role that they chose to assume The only choice they had which would have allowed them assume any other role was conversion to Islam. > no evidence that this ever happened There is obviously evidence and there several major Jewish or Samaritan revolts until the Romans lost Palestine in the 600s with the last revolt being quite brutal. Of course the scale of expulsions, forced conversions and massacres is no…
Islam allowed jews to own land, just like how it allowed christians to own land. if there were several jewish revolts until the 600s that is evidence that they did not result in significant expulsions. the fact that the region became majority christian is not evidence of a major expulsion of jews and subsequent replacement by christians, likely they mostly converted just like how most christians would end up converti…
I don’t quite get how you come to this conclusion?
Ireland for instance continued having rebellion despite and after significant expulsions starting hundreds of years prior to 1916…
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Are you seriously trying to revise taxation of other religions into an “alternative” when it clearly was meant to discriminate and oppress them? The Quran literally says the jizya is about fighting those who don’t believe in “god”, to subdue them. You are spreading revisionist misinformation, but it’s also so obvious and easy to disprove with a quick search. Why even try to spin it this way?
The mainstream academic consensus is that Jews generally fared better under Islamic rule than in medieval Christian Europe. Scholars also agree that jizya was paid in lieu of zakat (which Muslims paid) and military service. Of course, this raises the question: if Jews fared better under Muslim rule than under Christianity, why would they leave their alleged homeland and go to Europe, only to want to go back a thousan…
I hope I'm communicating well where I'm coming from, which is not that you're wrong (or right) but rather how unproductive this particular species of reasoning is in modern geopolitical discussions.
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This isn’t accurate. The majority of Jews in Israel are Mizrahi. The vast majority of them left the Muslim-majority countries during the Arab–Israeli conflict, in what is known as the Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries.
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What's especially aggravating about this trope is how useless it is in a discussion about today. It's not true, but if it were, what would that matter? You're still talking about Moroccans, Tunisians, Yemenis, and Iraqis who are not temporarily-embarrassed Europeans with a free pass to move back to where they came from.
A grandparent comment made the claim that most Israelis are from "Europe, Russia, pretty much anywhere but the middle east". That claim is luridly false. Why mitigate such a clownish argument? Acknowledge it's wrong and move on; don't build it into your own argument.
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The mainstream academic consensus is that Jews generally fared better under Islamic rule than in medieval Christian Europe. Scholars also agree that jizya was paid in lieu of zakat (which Muslims paid) and military service. Of course, this raises the question: if Jews fared better under Muslim rule than under Christianity, why would they leave their alleged homeland and go to Europe, only to want to go back a thousan…
Does it raise that question? Or is it rather a hopelessly ambiguous and undecidable question that's really more of a racialist rhetorical argument? The state of Israel was not formed based on a calculation of whether the Ottomans were better sovereigns to serve under than the French, German, or Russians. I hope I'm communicating well where I'm coming from, which is not that you're wrong (or right) but rather how unpr…
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They all suck. There are no good polities in the Middle East. At this stage into the genocide-counter-genocide cycle, there are no clean hands left. We need to switch to renewables asap, and just withdraw completely from the Middle East. They all want to kill one another for fanatical or ethnic reasons, and we clearly have no capacity to stop them. We should insulate ourselves from the region and restrict any involve…
Then they get nukes and the means of delivering them. Unfortunately, we are at an era no area can just be ignored. Theocracies oppressing their own people while aiming for expansion, particularly, must be dealt with. Else, they will eventually oppress the entirety of humanity.
> Else, they will eventually oppress the entirety of humanity.
We poured trillions of dollars into Afghanistan trying to do just this. It failed. It is not within the power capability of any state to bring liberty to people that do not want it.
The era of global internationalism you're alluding to is receding. If the Iranians and the Saudis want to nuke one another, that is very sad, but we will not be able to stop them in the long run. The best we can do is to keep as far away from any such conflict as possible.
The world are not children, to be minded by us. They're autonomous humans with agency, many of whom sadly happen to be blood-thirsty fanatics, chomping at the bit for a chance to do some genocide. As demonstrated by the last fifty years of Western policy failure in the third world, we do not have the capacity to fix this and it is folly to try.
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They all suck. There are no good polities in the Middle East. At this stage into the genocide-counter-genocide cycle, there are no clean hands left. We need to switch to renewables asap, and just withdraw completely from the Middle East. They all want to kill one another for fanatical or ethnic reasons, and we clearly have no capacity to stop them. We should insulate ourselves from the region and restrict any involve…
Then they get nukes and the means of delivering them. Unfortunately, we are at an era no area can just be ignored. Theocracies oppressing their own people while aiming for expansion, particularly, must be dealt with. Else, they will eventually oppress the entirety of humanity.