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OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

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Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#241

Post by himata4113 »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #177
himata4113 wrote: post #23

I have made both GPT 5.4 and Opus 4.6 produce me content on creating neurotoxic agents from items you can get at most everyday stores. It struggled to suggest how to source phosphorus, but eventually lead me to some ebay listings that sell phosphorus elemental 'decorations' and also lead me towards real!! blackmarket codewords for sourcing such materials. It coached me how to: stay safe, what materials I need, how to…

If someone were inclined to attempt producing nefarious agents in this category, is this not also available on the plain web? I would search to answer my own question, but I'll defer that task for obvious reasons.

I had to build a custom harness for this (also with the assistance of slightly less jailbroken AI). But you can just work your way up until you have something that's genuinely useful towards any goal.

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#242

Post by JumpCrisscross »

testing22321 wrote: post #236
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just described the US at large I described any democracy in a society with private property. Even without private property, you will have issues with concentrated benefits and diffuse harms–negotiating that is part and parcel with governance. Iowa businsses petitioning their cause is one thing. OpenAI seagulling in to take a shit in Springfield strikes me as being categorically different.

Viewed from a country with universal healthcare , 18 month’s maternity leave ( my partner just used it ) and so much more, it feels like comparing the US to “any democracy” is like comparing rocks to gold.

> viewed from a country with universal healthcare...it feels like comparing the US to “any democracy” is like comparing rocks to gold

Do most democracies, extant or across history, have universal healthcare? You're comparing a policy to a governance structure.

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#244

Post by Planktonne »

jstummbillig wrote: post #190
Planktonne wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I tell someone to kill someone else and they do, then I should be held responsible. If I write instructions in a book that I give to someone telling them to kill someone else and they do, then I should be held responsible. If I give someone a tool I made that I bill as more-than-PhD-level intelligence and it tells someone to kill someone else and they do, then I should be held responsible. All of the above situati…

Man, this debate is both very interesting and highly confusing with different people oscillating between "It's just a tool" and "It's a human being+"

It is a tool, but it's a tool that is sold by OpenAI as providing a high degree of intelligence. That's an endorsement of what the tool outputs as advice, which is what makes them responsible.

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#245

Post by semiquaver »

Have the sponsors of this bill stated what the public benefit of providing these immunities would be? Just “more models, more progress, go faster?”

I think there’s room for nuance but I don’t see how this could possibly be construed to be in the public interest.

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#246

Post by ghurtado »

nottorp wrote: post #186
ghurtado wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this the first time you have heard of AI safety? Lots of articles you could read on the subject and answer your own question. (Unless your angle is: akshually, you can never make anything 100% safe )

> akshually, you can never make anything 100% safe Yes Sherlock. And especially a natural language product that can't output the same thing for unchanged input twice. Besides when you say "safe" i think of the idiots at Anthropic deleting "the hell" when i pasted a string in Claude and asked "what the hell are those unprintable characters at the beginning and end"... How many correct answers did they suppress in thei…

> Yes Sherlock

I figured as much. I don't think it takes Sherlock Holmes to identify akshually types, but thanks for the compliment, I suppose.

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#247

Post by ticulatedspline »

nozzlegear wrote: post #212

As an Iowan, this reminds me a lot of the bill that's been pushed through my state's senate twice now (as recently as last year), which would prevent Iowans from filing lawsuits against pesticide and herbicide companies if those companies follow the EPA's labeling guidelines. The bill passed the senate both times, only stopped because the house declined to take it up. For context, Iowa has the fastest growing rate of…

Honest question, isn't that like OK?

Like if you have a product, and the government says the product is ok, and it's labeled per regulation and later that product turns out to be deleterious to people's health should the company be liable?

Guess we should already have precedent but my google-fu is failing here. I can't seem to find the resolution of Felix-Lozano v. Nalge Nunc , Felix sued Nalgene over their use of BPA which at the time was not illegal to use in the bottles.

PFAS will probably be the next battleground here. They've been used in lots of products. And have some lawsuits https://www.cbsnews.com/news/firefighters-pfas-lawsuit/ . In your opinion should every manufacturer of a product that uses PFAS be legally liable?

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#248

Post by WarmWash »

mystraline wrote: post #196
WarmWash wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Michelin chef can give you their recipe, and give you their ingredients, but you still will fail miserably trying to match their dish. It's the same with drugs, whose instructions and ingredient lists have been a google search away for decades now. Yet you still need a master chemist to produce anything. By the time AI can hand hold an idiot through the synthesis of VX agents (which would require an array of sensor…

That is completely wrong. Food preparation, like pharmaceutical drug fabrication, is inherently scientific and methodologically controllable. Look no further than the Four Thieves Vinegar Collective. Original synthesis line construction is hard. But the exact formula "add this", "turn on stir bar", "do you see particulate? Yes for +10m at stir", etc. And if their results are replicated, theyre seeing 99.9% yields, co…

I am completely unsurprised that a person with a PhD in mathmatics and physics who spent 8 years working on clandestine lab medicine was able to produce high quality end products.

I also think it's a wholly dishonest rebuttal of my point.

If you honestly think chemistry (or any of the classic sciences/engineering) is as easy as copy+pasting a recipe and procedure, I suggest putting down the keyboard and trying to build something on mother nature OS. It will be a truly humbling experience.

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#249

Post by MichaelDickens »

nottorp wrote: post #51
sassymuffinz wrote: post #5

So they did the math and worked out it's cheaper and easier to lobby the government instead of working to make their product safe. And these are the people that a lot programmers want to give the keys to the kingdom. Idiocracy really is in full effect.

> instead of working to make their product safe Make a nondeterministic product safe how?

What exactly are you implying? It sounds to me like you're saying that if it's impossible to make a product safe, then there shouldn't be any safety requirements. I think a more sensible position is that if it's impossible to make a product safe, then it should be illegal to build.

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#250

Post by AndrewKemendo »

raincole wrote: post #159
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are not complaining because the information is available people are complaining because it’s way easier now to just download an app ask a bunch of questions in a text box and get a bunch of answers that you personally could not have done unless you had an excessive amount of energy and motivation I personally think all this is great and I’m excited for all information to become trivially available Are they gon…

In other words, people are complaining that information is easily available. That's a lot words to express this simple idea.

Correct
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