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Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

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Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#241

Post by OptionOfT »

antonkochubey wrote: post #82
OptionOfT wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple also by default backs up your apps to the cloud. But it backs up the WHOLE package / folder / whatever terminology they use, including cached and redownloadable data. So if you have a game that has 10GB of cached data, it WILL upload that. Edge for me was >3GB. And then they have the following user-hostile 'features': 1. They offer a paltry 5GB. Hasn't changed since inception, but app sizes have ... tripped? I…

That's on app developers (I suspect mobile game developers are not the most competent of the bunch). My entire iPhone's backup is 4.6 GB, and my YouTube downloaded videos alone are way more than that.

> That's on app developers (I suspect mobile game developers are not the most competent of the bunch). My entire iPhone's backup is 4.6 GB, and my YouTube downloaded videos alone are way more than that.

While it's the app developers that need to make the change, it should be enforced by Apple. After all, that's why there is a walled garden, and that is the premium we pay for when using Apple.

But for Apple to enforce this means less popups on screens telling people that storage is full, which means less sales.

And again, we get to Goodhart's law.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#242

Post by qwerpy »

caconym_ wrote: post #238
qwerpy wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me the apps that don’t exist on Linux are Fusion360 (3d printing modeling) and OneNote (shared notebook with my non-technical wife that syncs to mobile). I also have zero tolerance for needing to tweak settings to make a game work on Linux. So I’m stuck on windows for now. Every month I have to spend an hour fighting some new asshole behavior concocted up by some ambitious Microsoft product manager. The latest on…

I understand that everyone has their own needs and Linux still might not be a great fit, but just in case it's helpful, here are some possibly-comparable Linux-friendly alternatives to what you mentioned: > Fusion360 Depending on your needs, Onshape could be a good portable option since it runs in a browser. I use it for all my 3D printing pursuits and have made some fairly complex parts. And it's free if you don't m…

Thank you for the recommendations!

I'll check out OnShape. Between that and FreeCad (which recently got a usability update) I can probably kick AutoCad/Fusion360 to the curb.

Perhaps Linux can handle all of my computing needs. "pretty much everything works out of the box" is my bar. I don't play any of the games that use the linux-blocking anticheat. Death Stranding 2 is what I'm playing now and it looks like folks were able to get it running well on Linux. I'll probably move over within a year, assuming Microsoft continues on their current path.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#243

Post by qwerpy »

futune wrote: post #207
qwerpy wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably my last Windows. It's getting harder to undo the shenanigans each time they push out another update. The moment I can't undo it, I'll move to Linux. I'll learn FreeCad and use Onenote in a browser. I have a long backlog of games that I finally have time to play, and for now they all just work on Windows. They probably 95% just work on Linux too, but it's that 5% that gives me pause.

If the games you want are on steam, check if they are on this list: https://areweanticheatyet.com/ If there is no anticheat (or the anticheat is supported), and the game is on steam, then I would wager that it would "just work". My feeling is that it's more like 99% now. Non steam games can be more problematic (I had issues with the blizzard/wow launcher for instance, it can be made to work but definitely doesn't "ju…

Thanks for the link, yeah I'm pretty much entirely on Steam. I'll play Diablo 4 one of these years, and that appears to be running fine. Sometimes I'll try out a game on my steam deck for fun and so far everything I run has worked. Maybe it is 99%+ for me. I looked through the "Denied" and "Broken" lists and saw a few games that I've played in the past (street fighter, guilty gear) on the Broken list. Guess I could always just play those on Playstation.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#244

Post by prism56 »

jcalvinowens wrote: post #225

I've been replacing old windows machines with raspberry pi fives for my extended family. They all love them! The cost makes the biggest difference: everybody is resistant, but caves and tries it when I say it only costs $100.

I setup my mum one of those cheap four core atom boxes with Linux. Was about £120 (before the current situation).

They browse the internet on chrome for 99% of their PC usage. Edit the very odd letter.

For a lot of people its perfect.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#245

Post by rconti »

ValentineC wrote: post #233
rconti wrote: post #104

Office in the Mac is AWFUL about this. By default, it saves to a OneDrive you never asked for and can never find. You can't permanently change the location of your saved documents-- just change it once, and the setting stays "forever", maybe, until a software update fucks it up for you again. Auto-save is disabled if you're not using OneDrive. Nobody asked for OneDrive. It makes it a goddamned nightmare to find your…

> Office in the Mac is AWFUL about this. > By default, it saves to a OneDrive you never asked for and can never find. You can't permanently change the location of your saved documents-- just change it once, and the setting stays "forever", maybe, until a software update fucks it up for you again. I don't remember ever encountering this problem, and I just checked that I am definitely logged into my Microsoft account…

I'm guessing you picked a location you wanted (outside of OneDrive) and the location has stayed, as I mentioned? I don't trust that it won't be reverted some day, but it hasn't in the past few weeks.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#246

Post by Dylan16807 »

Thorrez wrote: post #199
Dylan16807 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notably Microsoft used to offer 15GB until decreasing it a decade ago. So while I would say 15GB is pretty typical, I would not say it's competitive. I would say the competition died in 2013.

If the top offer is 15 GB, then 15GB is competitive, even if multiple providers offer it. Disclosure: I work at Google, but not on anything related to this.

Competitive implies competition.

The competition ended over a decade ago, and 15GB stayed 15GB even though the price of providing it dropped 5x.

Even though they're near the top, none of those companies are "competitive" in my book.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#247

Post by ChrisClark »

liendolucas wrote: post #30

From the WinUtil screenshots presented in the article I'm absolutely shocked about all the things that you presumably want to turn off or delete to have a "clean" Windows (to some extent if that's possible at all). It's also ridiculous that you need an external tool to easily disable/remove/uninstall every single thing you don't want . I haven't used Windows since many many years ago and the few times I sit down to i…

You suffer so much you give up in a few seconds? That's a bit dramatic and inflexible for someone that knows computers

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#248

Post by antonvs »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #143
antonvs wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose if you’re not paying them, your storage limit is zero, so if you have zero bytes there you’ve reached max capacity.

Pretty sure the free limit is 5 GB, at least for personal Microsoft accounts, not zero.

Yes but that would destroy the joke

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#249

Post by array_key_first »

inetknght wrote: post #65
scorpionfeet wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if you are coming from windows and are not a tech nerd. I don’t want to end up being tech support for some non techie I coerced into Linux. It is nowhere near as seamless as zealots like to believe. Been having this discussion since 1997.

> It is nowhere near as seamless as zealots like to believe. Perhaps not. But it's still more seamless than Windows these days. Microsoft keeps lowering the bar.

It's not just that Microsoft keeps lowering the bar, although they do. Linux desktops have also improved A LOT, especially in the last 10 years.

We're at the point where UI-wise they run laps around Windows, and often even MacOS. They're intuitive, simple, and powerful.

The problem is that they're not windows. People know how to use Windows, including how to work around the layers of jank. When you remove the layers of jank, expectations get broken and users get confused.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#250

Post by Gazoche »

ValentineC wrote: post #232
Gazoche wrote: post #194

Not that it's any excuse, but Apple does something similar by saving your photos to iCloud and deleting them from your local storage without telling you. I have seen the following scenario play out twice already: - The free iCloud tier runs out of storage because of the photo backups - Apple spams the user with warning notifications and emails and incentives to upgrade - User sees that nonsense and decides they don't…

> Not that it's any excuse, but Apple does something similar by saving your photos to iCloud and deleting them from your local storage without telling you. Photos > Download and Keep Originals.

I know how to disable it. I should not have to.

The setting is (intentionally) confusing too: "download and keep" implies that photos always have to transit via iCloud first, and the default is ambiguously named "optimise storage" rather than something more explicit like "move photos to iCloud".

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