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ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

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Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#241

Post by selfhoster11 »

kakacik wrote: post #165
randomNumber7 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know game theory? If you look at it through this perspective this doesn't sound like a good strategy. Basically the classical prisoner dilemma. The other devs with less moral can then outperform you. It could be a valid strategy if you can increase your crediblity with this relinquishment.

Life is more than just empty status games and money hoarding at (almost) all cost. In fact, a good life lived well (TM) is anything but that. But I write this on mostly US forum full of faangs and similar so i dont expect strong agreement.

I am on this very forum as an explicit effort to counterbalance that very view. You have my strong agreement.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#242

Post by munksbeer »

antirez wrote: post #34

Very good move. In my experience, for system programming at least, GPT 5.4 xhigh is vastly superior to Claude Opus 4.6 max effort. I ran many brutal tests, including reconstructing for QEMU the SCSI controller (not longer accessible) of a SVSY UNIX of the early 90s used in a 386. Side by side, always re-mirroring the source trees each time one did a breakthrough in the implementation. Well, GPT 5.4 single handed did…

> right now, at least: the reality is that if frontier LLMs are not democratized, we will end paying like a house rent to a few providers

This part of your comment has slipped through but is very worrying for me. I _think_ we're passing the point now where programmers are accepting that LLMs writing code are the real deal. Lots of antagonism along the way, but the reality is these things are good, and getting better all the time.

What this means in reality, in my opinion, is that if you're an independent programmer, or smaller company trying to compete with others to earn a living, you're almost certainly going to have to use coding agents, which means your competitiveness in the market is going to be gated by the big model providers until we have more options. If you somehow get banned from a few of them, which seems like it can happen through no fault of your own, you're going to be seriously negatively impacted.

That's quite worrying having gatekeepers to our industry where it was previously in our own hands.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#243

Post by selfhoster11 »

MattGaiser wrote: post #113
mrdependable wrote: post #107

It's interesting seeing all the ChatGPT users in this thread, knowing what we know about OpenAI. Either they don't care about what OpenAI does, don't know their reputation, or feel like their use is too insignificant to matter.

What has the tech industry ever resisted on moral or reputational grounds?

There was Lavabit, though that's an example of just one such event.

Edit: and to some extent Apple, at least in the past.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#244

Post by Yizahi »

mrdependable wrote: post #107

It's interesting seeing all the ChatGPT users in this thread, knowing what we know about OpenAI. Either they don't care about what OpenAI does, don't know their reputation, or feel like their use is too insignificant to matter.

Absolutely not surprising. Just ask HN users what browser are they using and the answer will be Chrome or Chrome clone in 99% of cases. I even got a reply once along the lines "why do you use Firefox?". I was at a loss for words.

I also observe exact same pattern in two different countries among experienced IT workers. They mostly don't care at all about any non-tech implications of the services or employees they are using. Creepto, gambling, tax evasion, supporting monopolies, etc. - all fair game.

PS: I'm guilty of the same too, in other areas. But at least I'm selfaware about my transgressions.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#245

Post by Yizahi »

monkeyisland wrote: post #200
mrdependable wrote: post #107

It's interesting seeing all the ChatGPT users in this thread, knowing what we know about OpenAI. Either they don't care about what OpenAI does, don't know their reputation, or feel like their use is too insignificant to matter.

Could you spell it out? I pay a $20/m OpenAI subscription and I haven't read the reasons why I might want to stop.

Sam is a pathological liar. He is also trying to build a monopoly which is never a good thing. And finally he is trying to get humans into a binary choice where either there is massive unemployment due to overly successful LLMs resulting in a crisis, or there is a crisis because of the failed LLM expectations.

tl;dr: If you need to pay for LLM for work, at least don't pay to the market leader.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#246

Post by Yizahi »

Apr1026 wrote: post #224
mrdependable wrote: post #107

It's interesting seeing all the ChatGPT users in this thread, knowing what we know about OpenAI. Either they don't care about what OpenAI does, don't know their reputation, or feel like their use is too insignificant to matter.

There is a saying in India that roughly translates to - Everyone is naked in this bath house. All AI players are 50 shades of evil and are only concerned about their profits. Instead of virtue signaling it's best to use the tools that work best for your needs.

You are halfway to the correct answer. You are correctly recognizing that evil comes into an infinite spectrum of severity and many actors are evil at different levels at the same time. Now take the next step and recognize that fighting said evil also comes into many different levels of severity. It is not just either clear 100% win or do nothing and immediately resign without a fight. There are many intermediate levels of fight in between two maxima. For example as a small step, one can continue using and paying to LLM corpos, but at least avoid the worst one of them, which OAI objectively is today.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#248

Post by ethbr1 »

torben-friis wrote: post #196
ethbr1 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The amount you can review before burning out is now the reasonable limit I realized this is the crux of our moment, because a variant of Amdahl's law applies to AI code gen. {time gained} = {time saved via gen AI} - {time spent in human review} There's no way that results in a positive number with 100% human review coverage, which means that human review coverage is headed to < 100% (ideally as low as possible).

I'm not sure that's as certain, I think just by virtue or LLMs being better copypasting/integrated stackoverflow you can get a speed boost (prompts like "generate a similar test to this one checking condition X"). The question is whether humans can sensibly judge the break even point and not generate faster than that. It's very easy to get lost in the woods and suddenly have a bunch of generated stuff you no longer g…

But it boils down to 'can you review code faster than you write it'?

To which, yes, everyone does in practice, but that's because we were relying on juniors and peers being human and making only human-style mistakes.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#249

Post by somenameforme »

rs_rs_rs_rs_rs wrote: post #126
somenameforme wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume in any sort of thread on a topic like this there is going to be inorganic activity. These companies are all fighting rather hard to try to gain marketshare, potentially worth $trillions, with a product fully capable of producing endless reasonably compelling content to populate an account, a website, or any other basic proof of identity one might ever want. It's probably never been the case that plurality of…

Yeah yeah yeah, everyone's a bot expect you with all the right opinions...

This issue is independent of topic or side. Astroturfing is real. For instance you obviously don't just take Amazon reviews at face value. In the past doing such things in social media, including forums like this, was much more difficult because you need to generate an entire persona around an account to make it not an immediately obvious inorganic account.

And so the cost:reward there was relatively poor leaving it to things like militaries and governments to carry it out for influence campaigns and what not. But LLMs have now completely changed the game. You can easily create an arbitrarily large number of passably believable personas and backstories, autonomously, with no real limitations on scale.

This is obviously going to be abused when the stakes are sufficiently high. And in this case we're talking about a market that these companies likely believe to be worth trillions of dollars. And they can likely even convince themselves that what they're doing isn't immoral pretty easily, in the same way they convinced themselves that letting their software be used to kill people by the all-so-ethical US military is perfectly cool. So why in the world wouldn't they 'inform people of the strengths of their product' on a wide scale?

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#250

Post by irishcoffee »

tedsanders wrote: post #207
irishcoffee wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the response. I tried to phrase my postulations as just that, I didn’t intend to be an accusatory. You like the job? How’s the day-to-day go? Yanking tickets or more organic?

All good, I interpreted it as postulation and not accusation. :) I do like the job! Much more organic than yanking tickets, though I'm on the model training side of things, rather than product side. Always a balance between short-term sprints patching bad behaviors for the next model vs long-term investments in infra and science that make future work easier. Sometimes the negative press gets to me a bit (it's a very…

What kind of bad behaviors? How is the whole SDLC lifecycle there? I imagine, given that this tech is kind of redefining how software is being written, it's not your standard workflow pipeline? Are there code reviews at all? Have you been in any particularly interesting meetings about how you're trying to "shape" the models?

I won't misrepresent myself, I've never spent a penny on any of these services. I am just super curious what it's like to work at one of these frontrunner companies. I bet it's pretty neat.

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