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Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

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Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#241

Post by presbyterian »

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #215
artakulov wrote: post #13

[flagged]

This has been a shocking discovery for me too. The library near us recently said it's cheaper for them to buy a book then an ebook. It's absolutely insane.

It's significantly cheaper! A physical book can be loaned endlessly, as long as the binding holds up, and even if it gets damaged, it can be repaired. The contracts for ebooks at libraries often limit it to X number of circulations before the library has to pay again (this is how Overdrive/Libby works), or they have to pay per circulation (Hoopla). It's ludicrous.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#242

Post by eviks »

fastasucan wrote: post #240
eviks wrote: post #234

> whether the digitalization of classrooms had been evidence-based There is no indication that the current opposite move is evidence-based either, so it's basically your typical vibe shifts. Might revert back to "digital basics" in another decade or so with identical quotes?

Usually you have to prove the effect of introducing something new.

which, in this case, is a paper book

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#244

Post by Swizec »

qurren wrote: post #239
pier25 wrote: post #199

I worked in EdTech about a decade ago and our education/pedagogy experts were already talking about this. They also talked a lot about how handwriting is super important for cognitive development. After working on that company for a couple of years I realized using tech in education (pre university) was a mistake. One of the reasons I left. In a decade or two the long term consequences of inundating kids with tech an…

> They also talked a lot about how handwriting is super important for cognitive development. Is it possible that there are alternative ways than handwriting for cognitive development? Probably in 500 BC they said you had to hack at stone with a chisel for cognitive development, and then someone invented the pen and paper. The difference is the task had to change as well. People were able to write thousands of pages (…

> Probably in 500 BC they said you had to hack at stone with a chisel for cognitive development, and then someone invented the pen and paper.

You are forgetting that in 500 BC literacy rates were well under 10%. Nobody optimized for anyone’s cognitive development.

The only cognitive development people cared about was for the rich (aristocrats, royalty, some merchants, etc). Much of that happened orally through hands-on tutoring by an army of people specifically employed to create the next generation of leaders.

Anyone would thrive with that much resources thrown at them. And I’m pretty sure many of them considered reading and writing beneath them. They got people for that.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#245

Post by luqtas »

smatti wrote: post #2

A very similar development is going on in neighboring Finland. There are schools that use almost exclusively paper books (instead of digital ones) again. The overall consensus among parents is that books are way better than screens for kids, all the way up to high school. Hand-writing and free drawing with pen and paper provide many advantages to fixed screens. You cannot open a new tab to Youtube in a book. The sign…

there's no evidence on scientific pedagogic literature that "analog ways" are better than digital when you control variables like "your kid being able to open a tab to watch a non-related Youtube video". you can't use your sample of 10 kids to say anything, nor use poor journalism done into the topic, which cites single research with less than thousand participants and bias from the author by other scientists on the field

no meta-analysis done into this topic could conclude anything beyond the digital medium being a bit more efficient on reading speed. and these studies do not account when comparing one way to the other on the plethora of ways a digital medium can expand knowledge (videos, gifs, images, interactive visualizations and so on)

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#246

Post by fasterik »

ninalanyon wrote: post #231
fasterik wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I realized using tech in education (pre university) was a mistake. I think we should use tech in education, but in a targeted way. It's important that children gain basic technical literacy, like how to touch type and use basic software. I suspect there is a gap in the technical literacy of lower income students, whose parents are less likely to have a computer at home. The real problem is separating reading/writing…

> how to touch type What for? I've been writing computer programs and documentation since 1969 and I can't touch type. I've never felt enough pressure to do it. I can still type faster than I can think. When I'm writing most of my time is spent thinking not tapping the keys.

In general, mastery involves taking the basic mechanics of something and making them completely automatic, freeing up cognitive resources for higher level processes. Expert pianists don't need to look down at their hands when sight reading.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#247

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

presbyterian wrote: post #241
Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been a shocking discovery for me too. The library near us recently said it's cheaper for them to buy a book then an ebook. It's absolutely insane.

It's significantly cheaper! A physical book can be loaned endlessly, as long as the binding holds up, and even if it gets damaged, it can be repaired. The contracts for ebooks at libraries often limit it to X number of circulations before the library has to pay again (this is how Overdrive/Libby works), or they have to pay per circulation (Hoopla). It's ludicrous.

Yeah that's a shitty model. We desperately need digital ownership rights.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#248

Post by fastasucan »

elminjo wrote: post #74
johanneskanybal wrote: post #69

It sounds good on paper (pun intended) but policy strikes again, "Can my kid bring home her math book so we can work on the parts she's struggling with?" No of course not it lives in a cupboard at school 90% of the time might get some screen shares from it.

this is a problem. we make photos of the pages. i think there should be always a digital option when you have a physical book.

Or every student have the books they need, and are free to bring them home.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#249

Post by hk__2 »

smatti wrote: post #2

A very similar development is going on in neighboring Finland. There are schools that use almost exclusively paper books (instead of digital ones) again. The overall consensus among parents is that books are way better than screens for kids, all the way up to high school. Hand-writing and free drawing with pen and paper provide many advantages to fixed screens. You cannot open a new tab to Youtube in a book. The sign…

> Source: I have 10 Finnish kids

Wait what?

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