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Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

bbc.com

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Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#241

Post by noosphr »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #87
leonidasrup wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe would be better served by doing, what France did in 1974. "As a direct result of the 1973 oil crisis, on 6 March 1974 Prime Minister Pierre Messmer announced what became known as the 'Messmer Plan', a hugely ambitious nuclear power program aimed at generating most of France's electricity from nuclear power. At the time of the oil crisis most of France's electricity came from foreign oil. " "Work on the first t…

Sounds like a good plan unless we've invented 2 much cheaper and faster to deploy methods to generate electricity.

Those two sources can't be turned on demand. You need another four to make them semi viable. By which point they are neither cheaper nor faster.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#242

Post by jopsen »

stavros wrote: post #164
zejn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. No new car is cheap, and electricity is now cheaper than gas or diesel.

My parents just bought a new BYD Dolphin, and it cost 3 EUR to go 150 km, whereas my diesel car costs 15 EUR for the same route. I don't know how people can say electric cars aren't cheaper. It's a 5x difference!

The initial car is more expensive. You'll typically make it up, but it depends on how much you drive.

And you have to pay interest on larger car loan.

But in practice, yes, when charging at home EVs are dirty cheap to charge.

The total cost of ownership (toc) for an EV is much lower. But you are paying it all upfront.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#243

Post by stavros »

jopsen wrote: post #242
stavros wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents just bought a new BYD Dolphin, and it cost 3 EUR to go 150 km, whereas my diesel car costs 15 EUR for the same route. I don't know how people can say electric cars aren't cheaper. It's a 5x difference!

The initial car is more expensive. You'll typically make it up, but it depends on how much you drive. And you have to pay interest on larger car loan. But in practice, yes, when charging at home EVs are dirty cheap to charge. The total cost of ownership (toc) for an EV is much lower. But you are paying it all upfront.

I don't know about that, this car cost 23k EUR which is cheaper than a VW Polo, which is roughly in the same category.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#244

Post by jopsen »

callamdelaney wrote: post #84
argsnd wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe simply does not have enough known oil reserves to put a dent in current prices even if it exploited them all. There may still be good arguments to do so anyway, such as it being less carbon intensive than importing oil, but there is absolutely no magic lever we can pull that would fix this problem that we're just not pulling due to renewables legislation.

Britain could start extracting oil from its European fields instead of just buying the same oil and gas from Denmark. Sanctions could be lifted on Russian oil. Duties could be dropped. There are levers.

> Sanctions could be lifted on Russian oil

I'd rather freeze.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#245

Post by jopsen »

lostlogin wrote: post #163
throwawaytea wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California my electricity to drive my Chevy Volt is more expensive than gasoline, if gasoline is less than $5 a gallon. So for basically the last 100k miles I've owned it, electricity was more expensive. The same goes for many plugin hybrids. Luxury EVs still win out because luxury sedans usually only get 25 mpg mixed max.

US fuel is so cheap compared to the rest of the world. If my maths is correct, we are paying US$6.10 a gallon here in NZ.

In Denmark fuel is so expensive they sell it by litre :)

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#246

Post by genxy »

Lio wrote: post #53
haunter wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define affordable. A €40k Seal is anything but affordable. Eastern Europe (and I don't put Slovenia in this case here, they are much closer to Western Europe in every sense) will not mass change to EVs suddenly when everyone is shopping for 10 years old diesels from Western Europe for maximum €10k

If you think the Seal isn't affordable then don't buy one. You can buy a brand new Dacia Spring for only £12,240. Personally I don't think it's a great car but it's certainly doesn't cost 40K. If it were my money I'd spend a bit more on either a used Jag ePace or a Renault 5 but some people prefer new cars I guess.

Thanks for the nerd snipe! I just found the Citroen e-C3, for a couple thousand more than the Spring. Both look fine. They should just be station wagons, but this is our timeline.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#247

Post by the_gipsy »

troad wrote: post #201
platevoltage wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans want to be the world's police until it's time to do something righteous.

Do they, though? They seem to very consistently vote against foreign entanglements, before their own leaders betray them, pressed into action by foreign allies advocating their own narrow regional interests (Europe on Russia, Israel on Iran, etc). Not clear to me why some working mum in Idaho is obliged to pay for Hungary's security when even the Hungarians refuse to do so, but hey, enjoy this meme while it lasts. Th…

The USA has put itself im this position by their own motivations, and has consistently profited from it.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#248

Post by thelastgallon »

troad wrote: post #181
lostlogin wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the war in Ukraine has kind of proven that the Europeans are not all that capable of action. It’s revealed a fair bit about America too. And this oil crisis is a fairly incredible screw up too. What did the US think would happen?

> It’s revealed a fair bit about America too. That America is incredibly generous with resources in a conflict has no possible bearing on the security of their continent? I don't see Europe sending billions of its taxpayer dollars to resolve conflicts in Africa and Asia. (It barely manages to do so for a conflict right next door!) There was a delegation of Asian (I think?) leaders in Europe a few years ago, and when…

> That America is incredibly generous with resources in a conflict has no possible bearing on the security of their continent?

America is generous with Americans money being funneled to the defense companies! This is all 100% middle class money, with the wealthy paying zero or negative taxes.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#249

Post by School-Cotton »

lostlogin wrote: post #94
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep And i'm saying that as a guy who drives to italy to buy pasta, booze and parmesan cheese. Two bottles of jack daniels and the cost of gas is covered by the price difference (well... not anymore).

A European buying American booze? I thought that had stopped?

Not at all. Some Europeans have indeed boycotted American goods but Europe is still a very important market for Jack. I suspect these boycotts are far less common than you would believe from reading Reddit and so on. The vast majority of people in any country don't really care about politics and just buy whatever they like.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#250

Post by saulpw »

legulere wrote: post #219
lemoncookiechip wrote: post #197

If you want to see the end state of lack of oil, look no further than Cuba's current state of affairs. It's dire. Also for the naive people in the comments who say "invest in renewables" it's not that simple. You can buy electric cars but the car's whole manufacturing process had multiple steps that required oil. The same applies to everything, it's not a single layer issues, it's a multi-layer issue that needs addre…

It’s not 100% of oil production capacity that is lost, but 20%. You need to cut demand by that, so electric cars can help extremely, because most oil is consumed during car use, not production.

They were saying, if you want to see the end state of lack of oil. Like how would it look if your oil spigot were turned off? A lot of people haven't thought about it.
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