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The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

fightchatcontrol.eu

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Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#241

Post by [deleted] »

CGamesPlay wrote: post #199
x775 wrote: post #66

I am the creator of Fight Chat Control. Thank you for sharing. It is unfortunately, once again, needed. The recent events have been rather dumbfounding. On March 11, the Parliament surprisingly voted to replace blanket mass surveillance with targeted monitoring of suspects following judicial involvement [0]. As Council refused to compromise, the trilogue negotiations were set to fail, thus allowing the Commission's c…

I am always curious when I see these kinds of movement. It seems abundantly clear that the options on any vote in any legislature for a proposed bill are always “yes” and “ask me later”. So when I see things like Fight Chat Control, it feels like the call is “we must tell our legislators to press the ask later button!” Why? Why has your approach not been toward passing active legislation that protects these rights go…

[deleted]

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#242

Post by [deleted] »

troad wrote: post #138
narmiouh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It clearly states here in 2 “consent of the person concerned OR some other legitimate basis laid down the law”, any random law will trump personal consent

One of the reasons international human rights law is so worthless in actual practice, is that half of it is framed like this. "Everyone has the right to X, except as duly restricted by law." Cool, so that's not a right at all then. Ditto the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, with its 'notwithstanding' clause. (Though they're presently litigating over that, so we'll see what happens!) Any constitution or human…

[deleted]

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#243

Post by komali2 »

cbeach wrote: post #176
latexr wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a EU citizen, it pisses me off that the US is (with others outside the EU) trying this hard to lobby to undermine our democracy and freedom of speech. https://digitalcourage.social/@echo_pbreyer/1162053712243153... And I’d still take this clusterfuck over the alternative current state of the US. At least this situation we can (and have been) striking down, despite all the naysayers on HN. Here’s to hoping we’re ab…

[flagged]

> socialist, collectivist tendencies

Lots of places are socialist or collectivist and have a different set of problems, so the argument that EU problems can be solely attributed to that don't make sense.

I'm also not sure "collectivist" is the correct label. We can't describe Japan (and the PRC, Taiwan, Philippines, Vietnam, a couple other SEasian nations) and the EU as both collectivist, considering Japan is the far more extreme version of it (I would say, only Japan is collectivist, not the EU). One or the other needs a different word.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#246

Post by markdown »

weakened_malloc wrote: post #233
hermanzegerman wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Commission consists of the Member States. So obviously they are also voted-in parties since the government of the Member States is democratically elected

True but it's a step removed. The MEPs are directly voted in whilst the EC are not, they're "voted in" on account of "voted in" people assigning them to the EC. I mean nobody argues that the FED governor is voted in, right? In reality a lot of people argue that they're unelected and yet making decisions that affect everyone.

As it should be.

It's good that both the US Fed Reserve Governor and EC appointees didn't have win popularity contests to get there.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#247

Post by pyuser583 »

latexr wrote: post #161
afh1 wrote: post #126

Where are all those "as an EU citizen" commenters? You are but a subject of an ultra-national government whose sole objective is ever increased control over your life and euros.

As a EU citizen, it pisses me off that the US is (with others outside the EU) trying this hard to lobby to undermine our democracy and freedom of speech. https://digitalcourage.social/@echo_pbreyer/1162053712243153... And I’d still take this clusterfuck over the alternative current state of the US. At least this situation we can (and have been) striking down, despite all the naysayers on HN. Here’s to hoping we’re ab…

Freedom of speech is not a European value.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#248

Post by rcbdev »

troad wrote: post #138
narmiouh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It clearly states here in 2 “consent of the person concerned OR some other legitimate basis laid down the law”, any random law will trump personal consent

One of the reasons international human rights law is so worthless in actual practice, is that half of it is framed like this. "Everyone has the right to X, except as duly restricted by law." Cool, so that's not a right at all then. Ditto the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, with its 'notwithstanding' clause. (Though they're presently litigating over that, so we'll see what happens!) Any constitution or human…

That's why countries like Austria have enshrined the Human Rights Charter into constitutional law, meaning only other law at constitutional rank could potentially conflict with such clauses. You can get your own country to do it, too.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#249

Post by rcbdev »

weakened_malloc wrote: post #188
derefr wrote: post #13

So... if we all care so much about shooting down the bad idea, why is nobody proposing opposite legislation: a bill enshrining a right to private communications, such that bills like this one would become impossible to even table? Is it just that there's no "privacy lobby" interested in getting even one lawyer around to sit down and write it up? Or is there at least one such bill floating around, but no EU member sta…

(I mentioned this in another comment) Because the people voting it down are the elected MEPs, whilst the people putting it up to parliament are the European Commission. The EC are appointed, rather than elected. Which means the powers that be just appoint people who are going to push through laws like this, that they want. The MEPs can't put up bills to be voted on.

And who exactly do you think elected the 'powers that be'? The issue is that voter turnout for EU parliamentary elections is awful in comparison to national elections, especially among more conservative voters - meaning that the political orientation between the parliament and commission is a little skewed.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#250

Post by az09mugen »

x775 wrote: post #66

I am the creator of Fight Chat Control. Thank you for sharing. It is unfortunately, once again, needed. The recent events have been rather dumbfounding. On March 11, the Parliament surprisingly voted to replace blanket mass surveillance with targeted monitoring of suspects following judicial involvement [0]. As Council refused to compromise, the trilogue negotiations were set to fail, thus allowing the Commission's c…

Thanks for your work. Just how is it possible for non-EU lobby to make vote a law in EU, and push for it ?
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