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Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

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Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real risk is the TFR never rises and population drops until complex society cannot be maintained. Or perhaps some weird minority with higher TFR takes over the world, what I call the "Amish Scenario".

Are you talking mainly about demographics? Like not enough working age people and too many older people?

Yes, and also that if the population becomes small enough it becomes impossible to sustain an industrial society due to lack of scale.

Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think there are absolutely instances of people virtue signaling. But, after observing society over the last few years, I've come to think that people who _whine_ about virtue signaling are so full of vice that they cannot possibly believe someone _else_ isn't also as base as they are. Its all such a shame. It seems like society has no ability to have reasonable, sensible conversation. I really wonder how the enl…

Do you know that about everyone who is virtue signalling, or are you just assuming that to be a blanket truth about everyone? I don’t think you can ever know the extent to which someone is actually trying, even if imperfect because some things just aren’t within individual control.

I mean I don’t know anything absolutely about someone else’s internal mental state. But I’ve just observed enough to come to certain conclusions, though not necessarily about any particular person.

Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

#243
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "unchecked" in unchecked economic growth just refers to the fact that no one is applying the brakes to this growth, i.e. it's being allowed to continue uninterrupted. This is only a problem when you understand the downsides of continuing with business as usual (mainly linked to the damage to the natural world).

growth especially in the EU pretty much decoupled from environmental load

That's not true. I'm sure you're referring to outsourcing manufacturing to other countries, but that's not enough to decouple from environmental load. For example, growth in tourism is not decoupled from environmental load.

Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking mainly about demographics? Like not enough working age people and too many older people?

Yes, and also that if the population becomes small enough it becomes impossible to sustain an industrial society due to lack of scale.

Isn't most of industrial society really just trying to deal with the problems of having to sustain so many people?

Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

#245
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

growth especially in the EU pretty much decoupled from environmental load

That's not true. I'm sure you're referring to outsourcing manufacturing to other countries, but that's not enough to decouple from environmental load. For example, growth in tourism is not decoupled from environmental load.

it's not 100%, but the strong correlation of economic activity with energy used (and that with CO2 emitted) is definitely getting less and less relevant.

and the EU CBAM (carbon border adjustment mechanism) is finally in force since start of 2026 for 6 sectors, and all sectors by 2030 (and by 2034 there should be no sectoral free quotas)

"Many countries have decoupled economic growth from CO₂ emissions, even if we take offshored production into account" from 2021 https://ourworldindata.org/co2-gdp-decoupling

and environmental load is not just CO2, but this is the main factor (because energy abundance is a prerequisite for a sustainable - actually green - economy)

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