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Intel's make-or-break 18A process node debuts for data center with 288-core Xeon

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Re: Intel's make-or-break 18A process node debuts for data center with 288-core Xeon

#241

Post by paulf38 »

bmenrigh wrote: post #35
Aardwolf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E cores ruined P cores by forcing the removal of AVX-512 from consumer P cores Which is why I used AMD in my last desktop computer build

I love the AVX512 support in Zen 5 but the lack of Valgrind support for many of the AVX512 instructions frustrates me almost daily. I have to maintain a separate environment for compiling and testing because of it.

There was someone at Intel working on AVX512 support in Valgrind. She is/was based in St Petersburg. Intel shuttered their Russian operations when Putin invaded Ukraine and that project stalled.

If anyone has the time and knowledge to help with AVX512 support then it would be most welcome. Fair warning, even with the initial work already done this is still a huge project.

Re: Intel's make-or-break 18A process node debuts for data center with 288-core Xeon

#242

Post by ponector »

sounds wrote: post #161
bearjaws wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't know if the human capital is there. At my job we use HyperV, and finding someone who actually knows HyperV is difficult and expensive. Throw in Cisco networking, storage appliances, etc to make it 99.99% uptime... Also that means you have just one person, you need at least two if you don't want gaps in staffing, more likely three. Then you still need all the cloud folks to run that. We have a hybrid setu…

> I just don't know if the human capital is there. > At my job we use HyperV, and finding someone who actually knows HyperV is difficult and expensive... Try offering significantly higher pay.

Or even try to educate people. It was common to have learning programs but nowadays managers only complain you cannot find cheap experts.

Re: Intel's make-or-break 18A process node debuts for data center with 288-core Xeon

#243

Post by boltzmann-brain »

rcxdude wrote: post #194
carefree-bob wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of AWS's reputation as a business and what the devs say who work there, so I have no argument against your point, except to say that they do manage to make it work. Somewhere in there must be some unsung heroes keeping the whole thing online.

The point being that AWS runs AWS, they don't run your business on AWS. You still need someone to actually set up AWS to do what you want, much like you would need someone to run your on-premises servers. And in my experience, the difference is not much.

The biggest issue is that with colo you're building a skill pool that can be used forever, with AWS you're building a skill pool centered around a corporate entity's business strategies and an inscrutable, closed-source system, which is not sustainable.

Re: Intel's make-or-break 18A process node debuts for data center with 288-core Xeon

#244

Post by consp »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #167
brcmthrowaway wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel contributes to Linux, how is this a problem?

Wrong level of abstraction. NUMA is an additional layer. If the program (script, whatever) was written with a monolithic CPU in mind then the big picture logic won't account for the new details. The kernel can't magically add information it doesn't have (although it does try its best). Given current trends I think we're eventually going to be forced to adopt new programming paradigms. At some point it will probably m…

Isn't high grade SSD storage pretty much a memory layer as well these days as the difference is no longer several orders of magnitude in access time and thoughput but only one or two (compared to tha last layer of memory)?

Re: Intel's make-or-break 18A process node debuts for data center with 288-core Xeon

#245

Post by marcyb5st »

50lo wrote: post #27

With packages like this (lots of cores, multi-chip packaging, lots of memory channels), the architecture is increasingly a small cluster on a package rather than a monolithic CPU. I wonder whether the next bottleneck becomes software scheduling rather than silicon - OS/runtimes weren’t really designed with hundreds of cores and complex interconnect topologies in mind.

I think linux and co do already a decent job. Even on K8s (so like at least another layer removed from the host OS) you can specify your topology preferences: https://kubernetes.io/docs/tasks/administer-cluster/topology...

So on the OS side we might already have the needed tools for these CoC (cluster on chip ;))

Re: Intel's make-or-break 18A process node debuts for data center with 288-core Xeon

#246

Post by ahartmetz »

vel0city wrote: post #224
tempaccount5050 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you think just anyone can set that up? No sys admin/infra guy needed? Seems pretty risky.

I mean not just anyone , but its far less complicated than dealing with arcane iptables commands. And yet far more powerful, being able to just say "instances like this can talk to instances like this in these particular ways, reject everything else". Don't need subnet rules or whatever, its all about identity of the actual things. Meanwhile lots of enterprise firewalls barely even have a concept of "zones". Its prac…

I could type your arcane iptables commands for a couple hundred an hour. That stuff is easy compared to some software development tasks. I have sometimes struggled, but I've always found a solution after a few hours max.

Re: Intel's make-or-break 18A process node debuts for data center with 288-core Xeon

#247

Post by eastabrooka »

ponector wrote: post #242
sounds wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just don't know if the human capital is there. > At my job we use HyperV, and finding someone who actually knows HyperV is difficult and expensive... Try offering significantly higher pay.

Or even try to educate people. It was common to have learning programs but nowadays managers only complain you cannot find cheap experts.

"We educated the people and they left because they could get better elsewhere" - Some Manager

Re: Intel's make-or-break 18A process node debuts for data center with 288-core Xeon

#248

Post by LunaSea »

lightedman wrote: post #112
LunaSea wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The company did need the same exact people to manage AWS anyway. That is incorrect. On AWS you need a couple DevOps that will Tring together the already existing services. With on premise, you need someone that will install racks, change disks, setup high availability block storage or object storage, etc. Those are not DevOps people.

"Those are not DevOps people." Real Devops people are competent from physical layer to software layer. Signed, Aerospace Devop

> Real Devops people are competent from physical layer to software layer.

This is usually not the case because DevOps are often people that mostly worked on cloud services and Kubernetes clusters and not real hardware since most companies do not have on premise hardware anymore.

Re: Intel's make-or-break 18A process node debuts for data center with 288-core Xeon

#249

Post by LunaSea »

ozgrakkurt wrote: post #111
LunaSea wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The company did need the same exact people to manage AWS anyway. That is incorrect. On AWS you need a couple DevOps that will Tring together the already existing services. With on premise, you need someone that will install racks, change disks, setup high availability block storage or object storage, etc. Those are not DevOps people.

To be clear, I'm not writing about on-premise. I mean difference between managed cloud and renting dedicated servers

Ah sorry, yes, that makes sense.

Re: Intel's make-or-break 18A process node debuts for data center with 288-core Xeon

#250

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

stego-tech wrote: post #8

These sorts of core-density increases are how I win cloud debates in an org. * Identify the workloads that haven't scaled in a year. Your ERPs, your HRIS, your dev/stage/test environments, DBs, Microsoft estate, core infrastructure, etc. (EDIT, from zbentley: also identify any cross-system processing where data will transfer from the cloud back to your private estate to be excluded, so you don't get murdered with egr…

It seems a lot of people have forgotten how BigCorp IT used to work.

- request some HW to run $service

- the "IT dept" (really, self-interested gatekeeper) might give you something now, or in two weeks, or god help you if they need to order new hardware then its in two months, best case

- there will be various weird rules on how the on-prem HW is run, who has access etc, hindering developer productivity even further

- the hardware might get insanely oversubscribed so your service gets half a cpu core with 1GB RAM, because perverse incentives mean the "IT dept" gets rewarded for minimizing cost, while the price is paid by someone else

- and so on...

The cloud is a way around this political minefield.

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