Live data from Hacker News

Don't become an engineering manager

newsletter.manager.dev

241–250 of 281 posts

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#241
>If you are a senior engineer, the bottom line is that I wouldn’t recommend the jump to management right now. I would wait a couple of years to see how things will look like.

> BUT, and it’s a big but - if your gut tells you to do it (and not your brain), if it’s truly a path you want to pursue - then go for it!

It feels more like the purpose of this article was to get the sponsored segment out than to actually give useful advice. Like how is this the conclusion?

> For my friend specifically, staying on the IC track, becoming a Staff engineer and switching companies would have given him ~20-30% more than the EM promotion he was offered.

Company promotions do not give a higher salary bump than moving companies. The friend could be at a company that pays less for all roles. Additionally, that visualisation does a low-high representation and doesn't take outliers into account. Staff engineer roles tend to have outliers when it comes to salaries. EM roles do not

If anyone wants some advice from an engineering director

* If you only want to become an EM for the money, you probably won't like it. It's the same as an engineer that's only coding for the money. The more you like something, the more you would want to learn it

* The EM title means different things at different companies. Some companies are only/mostly about line management duties. In other companies, you're expected to do project + stakeholder management. In other companies, you're also expected to do operations, budgeting and technical + business strategy. As you can see, it's different to an IC who is building software and there's more of a focus on the things around building software.

* Being hands on is one thing. But what distinguishes one EM from another is engineer empathy. If you're an EM on the team and haven't did a PR (with or without ai), then you have zero empathy for your engineers because you have no idea what it takes to build a feature for your team. Using LLMs improves engineer empathy, but you need to learn it despite it.

* AI/LLMs will change two main things: the ability for an EM to be more hands on and the way EMs design team processes. Just like it changes engineer's ability to code, the EM needs to think holistically on how the development process will change and adapt accordingly. Do you have a path for the team to use AI agents? Do you have ways to reduce meetings and achieve the same level of alignment with LLMs? This is the type of thing EMs will/should be thinking about.

* The career path of an EM is largely dependent on the growth of a company. You will only get "stuck" if your company is not growing. If a company grows, there will be a need to hire engineers, then hire someone that manages those engineers and eventually someone that manages those managers.

* The other thing about EM careers. Advancement also depends on how well you are fitting into the business. For small companies, being more hands on as an EM is better. For larger companies, fitting in well with the company values, culture and leadership principles of the company is better.

I really don't appreciate the author's lack of understanding on how engineering leadership works and the general gatekeeping in this article. Sure AI is changing things, but there's really no need to steer people away and gatekeep roles like this role implies.

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#242
One thing I rarely see discussed: the best engineers I've worked with who moved into management didn't do it for the title or the career ladder. They did it because they noticed they were already doing the job informally — unblocking people, aligning priorities, having the hard conversations. The role just formalized what they were already spending 40% of their time on. If you're not already gravitating toward those activities naturally, that's a strong signal the role isn't for you.

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#243
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generalist means something very different for big orgs. At FANG size companies have people to setup 401k and health insurance, tiny startups need 1 of 3 people to figure that out even if it just means finding a company to outsource such things it still needs to happen. Payroll doesn’t need to be a complex system but taxes must be paid etc.

That shows an ability to figure out what needs to be done and do it, regardless of whether it fits the formal job description. That can be an invaluable skill in an organization of any size.

It's the story of foxes and hedgehogs... Both have a time and place. Sometimes you need people who can aggressively put out fires, and sometimes you need people with deep focus for the long haul, who aren't overly distracted by the heat.

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#244
post #231
post #116

> The pace of change in the last year has been completely crazy, and it’s not stopping. > But even if you don’t give in to the constant FOMO - it’s impossible to argue that the way we worked hasn’t changed. Almost every part of our work looks different, and will continue to evolve. My experience is anecdotal, but this seems to be overblown. I'd say that almost every part of my work looks pretty identical to how it di…

I don't understand what you mean by "prediction". Are you simply saying you're not using the AI tools out there and making a claim that they don't boost productivity at all? Otherwise, even if the existing tools are overhyped (eg. instead of "exponential" gains, they are simply incrementally better), you're still gaining productivity by adopting them. And if they change your workflow, then "almost every part of our w…

> And if they change your workflow, then "almost every part of our work looks different, and will continue to evolve" would be true.

No, if almost every part of my work looks the same except for a few specific places that are changed, then the claim that almost every part of my work looks different is false.

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#245
post #4

I cannot be alone in feeling that titles (within "tech" in particular) are almost completely arbitrary? What constitutes a "senior", "lead", "principal" and "staff" X, respectively, has so much overlap that it really depends on the organisation. I myself have been called all of those things, but have honestly not been able to tell the difference: in some cases, I have had much more responsibility as a "senior backend…

Same for "programmer", "software developer", "software engineer", and so on. People insist that there's a real difference even when I have been all those things and there was no difference.

in canada theres a meaningful difference. Engineers are either EITs or have a professional stamp

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#246
post #192
post #4

I cannot be alone in feeling that titles (within "tech" in particular) are almost completely arbitrary? What constitutes a "senior", "lead", "principal" and "staff" X, respectively, has so much overlap that it really depends on the organisation. I myself have been called all of those things, but have honestly not been able to tell the difference: in some cases, I have had much more responsibility as a "senior backend…

> I cannot be alone in feeling that titles (within "tech" in particular) are almost completely arbitrary? What constitutes a "senior", "lead", "principal" and "staff" X, respectively, has so much overlap that it really depends on the organisation. All the responses here won't admit that it is entirely made up, and designed to be built around a structured hierarchy which rule followers and obedient servents to the sys…

i think i could reasonably drscribe a difference.

entry - needs mentoring to get stuff done mid - can build the whole thing by themselves, given enough time senior - can guide entry and mod to the same overall task and break up work such that both can do it. organizes and coordinates work across multiple teams principal/staff - sets direction for many teams worth of engineers

above that stops being so meaningful, except for directing where major engineering directions go, and is kinda more of a sales job about getting a lot of engineering managers pointed in the same direction.

a lead is orthogonal a bit, but reasonably a flavour of senior. you could have several seniors but only one lead in an area, who's a bit obsessed with a topic, and has the idea of where things are going.

> Here is a case study, would you interview at Meta today and work under someone far younger than you and has a more 'senior" role than you? You do understand that the "title" was made up and "created" for a particular position?

yes? i set up projects and gave feedback for people younger than me to get promos, and they did the work well and showed that they can do that work. Just cause didnt want the promo doesnt mean they didnt show their skill. Age is just a number. The youngest principal i met is by far still the best and most effective one (other than the sandbagging senior-principal)

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#247
post #150

If you are reading this and you are thinking you want to become an engineering manager, I urge you to think long term what you want that to look like. I've seen too often that developers who want to become managers because they think it's the next inventible step aren't prepared for the people management and HR part of that role. And, as you move up to Director and beyond, those higher often have much less to do with…

On the contrary, my manager doesn't do much outside of the perf evaluation season, and takes home a higher salary than me. He also gets to take credit for pretty much everything that his team does, despite not contributing to it much. Sounds like a fairly easy job most of the time.

if you arent hearing from them when you dont need to, theyre doing a good job, and if you arent being pulled into random junk, theyre doing their job

their role is to make sure the team can execute had the fastest best velocity.

usually as a shit umbrella

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#248

If you are reading this and you are thinking you want to become an engineering manager, I urge you to think long term what you want that to look like. I've seen too often that developers who want to become managers because they think it's the next inventible step aren't prepared for the people management and HR part of that role. And, as you move up to Director and beyond, those higher often have much less to do with…

Everybody wants a manager that has engineering experience, but nobody wants to be that manager.

ive had that manager a few times. its quite nice, but also, parents do a better job than non-parents

Re: Don't become an engineering manager

#249
Personally with the impending changes in the industry I feel like I'm better positioned as an engineering manager than an IC. If the bullish predictions come true and software development teams shrink dramatically or disappear I will not just be a developer - I'll be a manager. There is still an entire world of industries not impacted as much by AI - I could manage a team of mechanical engineers or conservationists or business analysts. These skills are more transferable outside of tech.
Post reply on HN