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MIT Living Wage Calculator

livingwage.mit.edu

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Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#241

Post by twoodfin »

daveguy wrote: post #206
twoodfin wrote: post #197

This has been posted many times before, and AFAICT it’s fundamentally misleading, as it doesn’t account for transfer payments (refundable tax credits, food stamps, housing vouchers, ACA subsidies, …) That artificially inflates the “wage level” needed for the estimated living standard. It also makes the tax figures absurd. No two-parent, two-kid household making $110K is paying 15% of that net in taxes, subtracting de…

A lot of the safety net also goes poof if you have the living wage. So I'm not sure exactly how your argument works. Are you saying the minimum wage should be under the poverty wage and everyone with that wage should depend on safety nets as it is now?

If this is meant to truly calculate the wage someone needs to live, it should at least attempt to assess transfer payments from the government, the same way it estimates living costs.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#242

Post by djoldman »

> Civic engagement

> The cost of civic engagement specifically is constructed by summing together the Consumer Expenditure Survey’s annual expenditure means for audio-visual equipment; education; fees and admission; other entertainment; pets; reading; and toys, hobbies, and playground equipment by both the size and composition of the consumer unit, which functions as a rough proxy for family size.

To me that's a pretty interesting category. Also it's pretty large at least for the Chicago metro area.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#243

Post by SideQuark »

bumby wrote: post #171
SideQuark wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, this is trivial to do. Theres plenty of states where unskilled entry lever wages easily allows this life, for most of the locations, with the exception of extremely high cost city centers. Pick IL for example. Min wage $15, so $30k a year income fulltime. Most every adult that’s worked even a little should be able to earn decently more than min, which is for completely unskilled, new workers. Median il wag…

Part of the issue is those smaller cities don’t offer a large supply of job opportunities. So people are often not able to pick and choose their location.

Plenty of cities outside the top 100 have massive amounts of jobs. And the person I replied to specifically stated willing to vary location as an option.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#244

Post by djoldman »

ninalanyon wrote: post #6

2080 hours per year! That's 52 weeks of 40 hours per week. It's also inhuman. Here in Norway we have five weeks of holiday plus various public holidays and only 37.5 hours per week adding up to about 1700 hours per year.

Lucky for the Norwegians that they have their sovereign wealth fund, started and significantly maintained by gas and oil reserves.

20-25% of total Norwegian government spending comes from the fund.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#245

Post by [deleted] »

still-learning wrote: post #96
losvedir wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a private room is not the same as living alone (having a private apartment/house). I think it's reasonable for young people to have flatmates and share an apartment, for example.

Its reasonable, but as we've advanced humanity in so many other fields (medical, technical, agricultural) why shouldn't the base standard of living also be increasing.

[deleted]

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#246

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

legitster wrote: post #130

The older I get the more I realize how fraught the idea of a "living wage" is. Through mid life, your financial health is not as determined by wages, but by your family/connections. Do you have access to a grandmother who can babysit? A decent second-hand car? A good roommate situation? Just look at the expense table - any one of these things could be worth up to 20% of your income! And you see that literally right h…

Why is it the responsibility of private industry to support a “living wage?” Should we index on a single person living alone? A teenager living with their parents? A single mom of three kids? A single mom with a single disabled kid?

Private industry should concentrate on paying people their market wages. Government should tax industries and individuals and provide a safety net.

Let me tell you from first hand experience what happens when unions get involved with manufacturing industries where they can pick up and go elsewhere - they do. Growing up, the city I lived in had 5 factories - all but one left because of fights with unions.

Where I use to live in the burbs of Atlanta, according to the website, the living wage is $45 an hour. Should we have a minimum wage there of $45 an hour?

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#247

Post by reactordev »

Aurornis wrote: post #142
reactordev wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roommate listings are for $1000/mo. I still think it’s grossly under what a typical person would need.

Read the second half of my comments: You're not going to find these roommate situations on public websites. The publicly listed ones are intentionally high.

I'm not talking about public listings on apartments.com... those are almost double.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#248

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

bradlys wrote: post #196
bumby wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this then imply some jobs are not intended to supply a living wage? Eg does that quants internship get a lower pay because they are expected to graduate beyond it? If so, how do we define what jobs are stepping stones and which are long-term careers?

I think all full time jobs should at a minimum pay a true living wage where one can live comfortably, save for emergencies, etc. If the job cannot pay that then it shouldn't exist. There are many ways to accomplish this beyond simply raising wages. Better government programs, lower the cost of housing/medical/transportation/food/etc. (these are surprisingly simple but many vested interests don't want this to happen),…

In that case none of the unprofitable tech companies should exist. It’s really easy for people in the tech industry who live off of the tits of VC funding say that mom and pop convenience store who can’t depend on the same largess shouldn’t exist.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#249

Post by nomel »

zozbot234 wrote: post #156
thewillowcat wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the wider society encourages it, your family doesn't have to lean into individualism, and many don't. We got by when I was a kid with a lot of help from friends and family, when I am absolutely sure we didn't have a living wage under this definition.

Did you fairly compensate your friends and family members for that "help"? Systematic reliance on wholly unpaid labor is not exactly something to be proud of.

I help my kids, but I don't expect them to help me. I want them to save their money to help their kids, otherwise I'm just taking from my grandkids.

Same when I help my siblings. If they pay me back, now I'm taking away from my nieces and nephews. Within friends/family, I think it's completely reasonably if the money flows "downhill".

This is the fundamental concept of the vast majority of taxes, including those that feed the poor/unemployed: that money is gone, somewhere between little and no personal return, but that usually makes sense, increasingly so with income.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#250

Post by harshalizee »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #246
legitster wrote: post #130

The older I get the more I realize how fraught the idea of a "living wage" is. Through mid life, your financial health is not as determined by wages, but by your family/connections. Do you have access to a grandmother who can babysit? A decent second-hand car? A good roommate situation? Just look at the expense table - any one of these things could be worth up to 20% of your income! And you see that literally right h…

Why is it the responsibility of private industry to support a “living wage?” Should we index on a single person living alone? A teenager living with their parents? A single mom of three kids? A single mom with a single disabled kid? Private industry should concentrate on paying people their market wages. Government should tax industries and individuals and provide a safety net. Let me tell you from first hand experie…

What happens when private industry colludes to decide what "market" wages are?

This has literally happened even in Big Tech, leading to lawsuits within the last decade.

If a business can't pay a person working full time to satisfy their basic needs, their business model is not viable. If they can and don't pay so, it's plain exploitation. Ex. Walmart employees can't support themselves and rely on social services despite having a full time job.

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