Live data from Hacker News

221 Cannon is Not For Sale

fredbenenson.com

241–250 of 278 posts

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#241
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the dark old days before Apple Pay, where it was common in America to hand your credit/debit card to some rando at a restaurant and have them disappear with it for a few minutes, about once a year my bank would call me to ask if I'd been using my card in some far-off locale: "Hi! Are you in Tijuana?" "Not since 1993. Why? What's up?" "So you didn't just try to buy gasoline at a PEMEX there?" "Nope, I'm in San Fran…

I think tap-to-pay terminals that the server carries now eliminate more of this. but occasionally I have to give my card over. On the other hand, stolen credit cards were kept by the restaurant and they got a reward. Nowadays I don't think there is ANY checking of whose card is being used.

Credit cards never generally required identity verification (especially not for the cost of a restaurant dinner; anti-fraud measures might kick in for larger purchases, though), that was always a "feature". (Credit card companies want people to spend money and have always prioritized that over fraud detection.) Even the whole "I'm going to write Check ID on the card signature line" thing was never officially recognized by credit card providers, and explicitly was against the Terms of Service of most of them. The signature line was never meant to be an anti-fraud tool, it was your acknowledgement that you had read your Card's Terms of Service and accepted that contract, a holdover from the days before software invented shrinkwrapped/clickwrapped/SaaS contract acceptance and contracts still generally needed an explicit signature of acceptance. (That's the reason signature lines are just now disappearing, the Credit Card industry is finally following the software industry on "any and all possible uses of our services is acceptance of all of our contracts"; nothing to do with how much more NFC and EMV chips are secure against fraud.)

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was once common but is exceedingly rare these days. I'm sure exceptions exist, but nearly all Americans now treat this as a Very Secret Number.

LOL. Every single $&@ doctor's intake form: "We'd like to have you SSN".

And none of them have ever complained when I left if blank.

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#243
post #57
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm equally careful and aware. Years ago, now, I discovered that someone in New Mexico (if I recall correctly) was working under my Social Security number. That was likely someone not authorized to work in the US writing random digits on an I9 form. No amount of care will protect against that. It wasn't easy to clear up, either. I'm fortunate that a close friend worked (at the time) for the SS administration, and was…

I remember a friend's boyfriend lost his wallet in mexico. she said the next few years he got many tax returns, apparently several people using his legitimate ssn.

Did he store his SSN card in his wallet like so many uninformed people do?

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swimming at a gas station pump would be uncomfortably lethal.

I wonder how well you would have to be able to swim to overcome the density/buoyancy difference if swimming in a pool of gasoline?

It depends how long you can hold your breath. I imagine many people would be overwhelmed by the fumes before they got very far.

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the dark old days before Apple Pay, where it was common in America to hand your credit/debit card to some rando at a restaurant and have them disappear with it for a few minutes, about once a year my bank would call me to ask if I'd been using my card in some far-off locale: "Hi! Are you in Tijuana?" "Not since 1993. Why? What's up?" "So you didn't just try to buy gasoline at a PEMEX there?" "Nope, I'm in San Fran…

You must have been going to some very shady restaurants. I still hand off my credit card to a rando. I did it today. I did it last weekend. I've never had this problem.

Mine was cloned at a very high-end restaurant in Austin, TX.

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll work in this area of the country (Connecticut, Massachusetts,) because this is a known scam and relators and attorneys know to keep an eye out for this. The problem is that a 4x8 plywood sign will weather very fast in New England weather. You're better off following the article's suggestion of flagging the property with the court. BTW: When these scams happen, you can sue for the irreplaceable value of trees re…

Who can you sue? The scammer?

Either the parties involved in the sale who should have known better, such as the relator and/or seller's attorney; or the party that took the trees down.

Furthermore, at least in Massachusetts, when you purchase property you also purchase title insurance that protects you against this. I remember very specifically, at closing, that my attorney explained that the insurance was in case someone came around with an old claim to the land.

It would be interesting to find out who and what paid out, because these scams have been going on for a bit. (There was one linked to where a property owner drove by and found a house being built on their land.)

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#247
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the Torrens system, if you do not register the transfer of property with the government, then the transfer hasn't happened. This is also true of county clerks in the US: any transfer of property in the county has to be recorded on a deed that is submitted to the county clerk and kept on file by them. Otherwise it hasn't happened. > if the land registry fucks up the transfer is still final This is the part that m…

> any transfer of property in the county has to be recorded on a deed that is submitted to the county clerk and kept on file by them. Otherwise it hasn't happened. No, the point is that this is actually not true. The transfer has happened as soon as the deed has been executed . There are many reasons you generally want to record the deed in a timely fashion, but doing so is not strictly necessary.

> the point is that this is actually not true

It is in Florida, which is where I live. Florida Statutes section 695.01:

"No conveyance, transfer, or mortgage of real property, or of any interest therein, nor any lease for a term of 1 year or longer, shall be good and effectual in law or equity against creditors or subsequent purchasers for a valuable consideration and without notice, unless the same be recorded according to law"

I can't say whether every US state has similar law in place, but I suspect most of them do, since both the State and the county clerks get revenue from the recording fees.

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#248
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the title system in the USA decentralized or that much different than elsewhere? As with most things both law-related and US-related, it depends. This type of scam would not work in the majority of states due to various laws, regulations, and bookkeeping (it would be nearly* impossible to sell land you don’t own in California for example). There are other states (and countries - I’m looking at you Canada) where…

So the scam here doesn't seem to be ACTUALLY selling the land--it's basically engaging a realtor long enough to get earnest money on the table, then to disappear. Although if they could go far enough to get an entire amount wired to them I'm sure they'd take it. Since a lot of people are doing all cash (non-financed) deals lately, I could see how a scammer and a lax realtor could possibly scam an overzealous buyer ou…

That still wouldn’t work in most states. The earnest money and the final payment are handled by an escrow company who does all the title verification or works hand in hand with the company doing the title verification. Neither set of funds is ever just handed over.

Again - it varies state to state, as the constitution dictates.

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#249
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any transfer of property in the county has to be recorded on a deed that is submitted to the county clerk and kept on file by them. Otherwise it hasn't happened. No, the point is that this is actually not true. The transfer has happened as soon as the deed has been executed . There are many reasons you generally want to record the deed in a timely fashion, but doing so is not strictly necessary.

> the point is that this is actually not true It is in Florida, which is where I live. Florida Statutes section 695.01: "No conveyance, transfer, or mortgage of real property, or of any interest therein, nor any lease for a term of 1 year or longer, shall be good and effectual in law or equity against creditors or subsequent purchasers for a valuable consideration and without notice, unless the same be recorded accor…

I would characterize that as a patching of some of the problems that arise from the system, not a changing of the system's underlying semantics.

By my lay reading of that, it doesn't even actually necessitate recording the deed sooner for it to have those effects - rather it just means that the deed needs to have been recorded some time before you get to court.

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll work in this area of the country (Connecticut, Massachusetts,) because this is a known scam and relators and attorneys know to keep an eye out for this. The problem is that a 4x8 plywood sign will weather very fast in New England weather. You're better off following the article's suggestion of flagging the property with the court. BTW: When these scams happen, you can sue for the irreplaceable value of trees re…

Who can you sue? The scammer?

Might be worth reading this article about the result of a victim suing: https://www.ctinsider.com/connecticut/article/sky-top-terrac...

Regarding the victim, Kenigsberg:

> Kenigsberg received an undisclosed sum. Sky Top Partners gained a clean title to the land, finished the house and made the sale.

> Kenigsberg remains critical of the system that failed to stop the fraud and of public safety agencies that have not found the perpetrators. Under the law it's possible he could have seen the house destroyed and himself enriched more than he was. He prefers to see the case almost as an outside observer, above the fray.

Post reply on HN