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Self Driving Car Insurance

lemonade.com

241–250 of 359 posts

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#241

I'm quite skeptical of Tesla's reliability claims. But for exactly that reason, I welcome a company like Lemonade betting actual money on those claims. Either way, this is bound to generate some visibility into the actual accident rates.

> quite skeptical of Tesla's reliability claims I'm sceptical of Robotaxi/Cybercab. I'm less sceptical that FSD, supervised, is safer than fully-manual control.

> I'm less sceptical that FSD, supervised, is safer than fully-manual control.

I'm very skeptical that the average human driver properly supervises FSD or any other "full" self driving system.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of ultramodern cruise control (eg comma.ai), which has a radar to track the distance to the car (if any) in front of you, and cameras so the car can wind left or right and track the freeway, I think it does.

Not unless they are marketing it as “autopilot” or some such that a random consumer would reasonably assume meant autopilot. And I’d include “AI driver” as an example.

A random consumer doesn't actually understand what Autopilot means. Most people don't have pilot's licenses. And cars don't fly. Did you not see all the debacles around it when it first came out?

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live isn't particularly challenging to drive (rural Washington), but I'm constantly disengaging FSD for doing silly and dangerous things. Most notably my driveway meets the road at a blind y intersection, and my Model 3 just blasts out into the road even though you cannot see cross traffic. FSD stresses me out. It's like I'm monitoring a teenager with their learners permit. I can probably count the number tri…

Do you have HW3 or HW4?

The newest FSD on HW4 was very good in my opinion. Multiple 45min+ drives where I don’t need to touch the controls.

Still not paying $8k for it. Or $100 per month. Maybe $50 per month.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#244
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, I don't want to share my car with anyone. It's my own personal space where I can keep some of my stuff and set it up exactly the way I want.

That's how some people feel about airplanes. Presumably you're not one of them. For some people, the inconvenience of being responsible for a car would outweigh the benefit of setting up their stuff inside of one.

It's not even an inconvenience. I like my cars. Dealing with ride hailing services (autonomous or not) is certainly far more inconvenient than owning a car (unless maybe you're stuck living somewhere without convenient parking).

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#245
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the Transport Workers Union fought tooth and nail for it. Laying off hundreds of operators would be a politically very dangerous move.

Huh. I wonder if that makes any sense. It doesn't seem to make sense to keep employing people if you no longer need them. It sucks to be layed off, but that's just how it works.

It also shows a lack of imagination. If you have to provide a union with a job bank, why not re-deploy employees to other roles? With one person per train, re-deploy people to run more trains therefore decreasing the interval between trains. Stations used to have medics but this was cut. How about re-train people to be those medics? The subway could use a signaling upgrade and positive train control. Installing platform screen doors to greatly reduce the incidence of people falling onto the tracks is going to need a lot of labor.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live isn't particularly challenging to drive (rural Washington), but I'm constantly disengaging FSD for doing silly and dangerous things. Most notably my driveway meets the road at a blind y intersection, and my Model 3 just blasts out into the road even though you cannot see cross traffic. FSD stresses me out. It's like I'm monitoring a teenager with their learners permit. I can probably count the number tri…

Do you have HW3 or HW4?

HW3, unfortunately. Missed the HW4 refresh by a couple of months.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#247
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-driving municipal busses would be fantastic.

Why would you need buses?

Mass transit is a capacity multiplier. If 35 people are headed in the same direction compare that with the infrastructure needed to handle 35 cars. Road capacity, parking capacity, car dealerships, gas stations, repair shops, insurance, car loans.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drunk driving isn't the primary mover of high risk driving. Rather you have: 1. People who can't afford self driving cars (now the insurance industry has a good proxy for income that they couldn't tap into before) 2. Enthusiasts who like driving their cars (cruisers, racers, Helcat revving, people who like doing donuts, etc...) 3. Older people who don't trust technology. None of those are good risk pools to be in. Al…

> Drunk driving isn't the primary mover of high risk driving. It kind of is. They're responsible for something like 30% of traffic fatalities despite being a far smaller percentage of drivers. > People who can't afford self driving cars (now the insurance industry has a good proxy for income that they couldn't tap into before) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30172108/ But also, wouldn't they already have this by usin…

Only .61% of car crashes involve fatalities, so that’s like .2% of car crashes you are referring to. Probably more due to alcohol, but we don’t know the ratio of accidents that involve alcohol, which would be more telling.

> How sure are we that the people who don't trust technology are older? And again, the insurance company already knows your age

Boomers are already the primary anti-EV demographic, with the complaint that real cars have engines. It doesn’t matter if they know your age of state laws keep them from acting on it.

> that more of a problem for the self-driving pool? Also, isn't most of the cost that the sensors aren't as common and they'd end up costing less as a result of volume production anyway?

I think you misunderstood me: If you get into an accident and are found at fault, you are responsible for damage to the other car. Now, if it’s a clunker Toyota, that will be a few thousand dollars, if it’s a roll Royce, it’s a few hundred thousand dollars. The reason insurances are increasing lately is that the average car on the road is more expensive than it was ten years ago, so insurance companies are paying out more. If most cars are $250k Waymo cars, and you hit one…and you are at fault, ouch. And we will know if it is your fault or not since the Waymo is constantly recording.

> If half of human drivers switched to self-driving cars but they were chosen completely at random then the insurance rates for the remaining drivers would be essentially unaffected.

That’s not how the math works out (smaller risk pools are more expensive per person period). And it won’t be people switching at random to self driving cars (the ones not switching will be the ones that are more likely to have accidents).

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, in some cities that have near grid-lock rush-hour traffic - there's between 50-100%+ as many people traveling by bus as by car. If all of those people switch to cars, you end up with it taking an hour to travel 1 mile by car. It's almost as if they have busses for a reason.

First, these cities should be fixed by removing the traffic magnets. It's far past the point where we used the old obsolete ideology of trying to supply as much traffic capacity as possible. But anyway, your statement is actually not true anywhere in the US except NYC. Even in Chicago, removing ALL the local transit and switching to 6-seater minivans will eliminate all the traffic issues.

Car traffic magnets like highways inside urban cores? Or people traffic magnets like office buildings, colleges, sports stadiums, performing arts venues, shopping malls?

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#250

If it autonomous or self-driving then why is the person in the car paying for the insurance? Surely if it's Tesla making the decisions, they need the insurance?

If your minor child breaks something, or your pet bites someone, you are liable.

This analogy may be more apt than Tesla would like to admit, but from a liability perspective it makes sense.

You could in turn try to sue Tesla for defective FSD, but the now-clearly-advertised "(supervised)" caveat, plus the lengthy agreement you clicked through, plus lots of lawyers, makes you unlikely to win.

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