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ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

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Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#241

Post by Larrikin »

pc86 wrote: post #191
Larrikin wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok is blocking upload of ICE videos and Facebook is blocking posts with information about the ICE agents. Amazon just paid millions of dollars to put out a movie nobody wants about Donalds wife. Every major tech company paid millions of dollars for Donalds library at the beginning of all this for "the library" The surveillance non state actors are already doing anything this administration wants.

This isn't a counterpoint. The philosophical reason the state doing something is worse than a private company doing the exact same thing is that the state can imprison, bankrupt, and execute you. TikTok can't. The argument isn't that it's good these companies are doing this - it's not. The argument is that it would be even worse if the state was doing it directly. There are more avenues to stop, nullify, and avoid th…

You're arguing a point that may have been relevant in Donald's first term. All of the companies mentioned are positioning themselves to be state sanctioned in a way that makes them effectively parts of the government. If we don't get a "third" term then your argument becomes relevant again and I agree.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#242

Post by gortok »

JohnFen wrote: post #239
gortok wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide a news link to this? As I understand it, courts have historically followed the precedent that “you can’t suppress the body”, meaning even if the method of an arrest is illegal, you don’t have to let the person go if their arrest is otherwise valid.

https://apnews.com/article/ice-arrests-warrants-minneapolis-...

I wasn’t clear. I’m referring to a news link indicating that judges have released folks due to valid arrest warrants but invalid means of arresting folks.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#243

Post by gedy »

hypeatei wrote: post #219
gedy wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Team sports basically. And when you point out double standards, you got slammed as some "both sides" guy from the other team pretending to be a centrist.

This is a delusional take. For starters, there was criticism from lefties against Obama. Second, Obama didn't use ICE as a secret police force and send them into his political opponents' cities to punish them for wrongthink. You cannot tell me with a straightface that ICE in their current capacity is "just enforcing immigration laws"

I think you're assuming way too much about my point and jumping to conclusions, QED

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#244

Post by torben-friis »

pc86 wrote: post #111
torben-friis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would non state actors be any less scary? Large companies colluding to reject potential hires due to surveilled ideology, sexual preferences of people in the closet filtered to scammers, hate groups learning about the family members of activists, insurance rejecting customers based on illegally obtained data… the list of risks is giant.

There is a reason that many of the rights enumerated in the Constitution, at some level, restrict the government (originally just the federal government, not even the states) and not private enterprises. The go-to example is recording. Watch any "First Amendment auditor" video on YouTube (prepare yourself, most of them are a struggle to watch). I can walk into any government building, and as long as I'm in a publicly…

>but philosophically it's pretty easy to see why it's worse for the government to do a Bad Thing than for any individual or private enterprise to do the exact same Bad Thing.

This was not the claim though, the claim is that it’s not scary to be surveilled until that information reaches state actors.

States acting against citizens can be worse in a moral/political sense, but a victim is not more or less harmed depending on the aggressor.

(I didn’t downvote, if it matters, I just saw the message).

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#245

Post by torben-friis »

rudhdb773b wrote: post #74
torben-friis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would non state actors be any less scary? Large companies colluding to reject potential hires due to surveilled ideology, sexual preferences of people in the closet filtered to scammers, hate groups learning about the family members of activists, insurance rejecting customers based on illegally obtained data… the list of risks is giant.

> Why would non state actors be any less scary? Non-state actors can't easily use violence to throw me in jail.

>Non-state actors can't easily use violence to throw me in jail.

Let me rephrase: why wouldn’t state actors be scary?

The state might have a monopoly on legal physical violence, but I think it is naive to think private interests can’t harm you just as much, with or without state connections. See my previous examples.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#246

Post by buellerbueller »

rob74 wrote: post #238
ahzhzvH wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nazis abusing all kinds of records to hunt down Jews. History was never going to repeat itself that way Kinda ironic but I think you’ve got the current situation a little backwards. Karp (who is Jewish) has boasted about Palantir being used to hunt down the “far right”: https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/28/palantir_boss_fii_spe... I think it’s very important to focus on how data collection of this nature is bad,…

Ok, so Palantir was used to prevent terror attacks in Europe, which would have presumably led to (even more) popularity of the far right. Palantir is also being used by the current far-right US administration (who, unlike the Nazis, like Jews and are even in part Jewish, but hate immigrants, Muslims, LGBTQ people, liberals etc. etc.) to hunt down immigrants based on their medical data. I fail to see how these two are…

>Palantir was used to prevent terror attacks in Europe

...according to an unsubstantiated claim by the CEO of Palantir while on a PR tour.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#247

Post by pge »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #78
pge wrote: post #60

What is not clear to me from the article is what data they are getting from CMS. The article references Medicaid data, but everyone that has access to Medicaid is legally present in the country. They have to be to qualify. Some possiblities: * They are going after people legally here on temporary visas such as SIV that give them access to medicaid * They are going after people that are not on medicaid and have no ins…

> What is not clear to me from the article is what data they are getting from CMS They’re literally just pulling up addresses (404 Media). Replace Palantir with McKinsey and making an app for VLOOKUP makes more sense.

I get that - the question is why CMS would have addresses for undocumented immigrants at all (assuming for the moment it is only undocumented that they are looking for). Undocumented immigrants are not eligible for Medicaid, so how and why would CMS have their names and addresses?

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#248

Post by hypeatei »

gedy wrote: post #243
hypeatei wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a delusional take. For starters, there was criticism from lefties against Obama. Second, Obama didn't use ICE as a secret police force and send them into his political opponents' cities to punish them for wrongthink. You cannot tell me with a straightface that ICE in their current capacity is "just enforcing immigration laws"

I think you're assuming way too much about my point and jumping to conclusions, QED

What was your point? You mentioned "double standards" and "team sports" as if the Trump and Obama admins were comparable with their use of ICE.

If you wanted to make a more detailed point, then do that but as your comment stands, it is just a useless bothsides-ism.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#249

Post by carefulfungi »

carefulfungi wrote: post #128
kurthr wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, retroactively manufactured cause for a warrant to find only the information you want. Also, don't forget that profit maximization means selling to the highest bidder, which might not be US govt. Certainly, there is means, motive, and opportunity for individuals with access to sell this info to geopolitical adversaries, and it is BY FAR the easiest way for adversaries to acquire it. It has happened before and it…

They've stopped obtaining warrants. ICE claims they can enter homes forcefully without a judge-signed warrant. Judges have released at least one victim seized this way.

This statement is true. If you are downvoting because it is incorrect, I'd appreciate an explicit correction. Other posters provided links in this thread.

* https://www.wired.com/story/us-judge-rules-ice-raids-require...

* https://www.minnpost.com/metro/2026/01/judge-orders-release-...

> A federal judge in Minnesota on Thursday ordered the release of a Liberian man four days after heavily armed immigration agents broke into his home using a battering ram and arrested him.

> U.S. District Judge Jeffrey Bryan said in his ruling that the agents violated Garrison Gibson’s Fourth Amendment rights against unlawful search and seizure.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#250

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jacquesm wrote: post #234
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ICE/Palantir/DHS should not have access to health records Totally agree. Where I disagree is in saying the government shouldn’t have these records. Like, no. The government knowing where I live is not only fine but also sort of necessary. Just because it has some data doesn’t mean it can abuse it.

The government is not one entity and it is perfectly possible for one sub-entity to have certain data and for another not to be able to have that same data, in fact from being prohibited to have access (let alone use) that same data. Palantir is used as a way to gain access to data that should otherwise not be accessible and the fact that it isn't the health data itself is immaterial: it was collected in the process…

> government is not one entity and it is perfectly possible for one sub-entity to have certain data and for another not to be able to have that same data

Sure. Again, we agree. What I’m pushing back on is the notion that it was inappropriate for any branch of the government to have these data, or that any of this has anything to do with private dragnets.

They’re addresses. This isn’t a possession problem, it’s one of access.

> the USA does not have the equivalent of a GDPR

You could have super GDPR that bans all private dragnets and HHS would still have home addresses. This is a Privacy Act and HIPAA problem.

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