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ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

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Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#241

Post by w10-1 »

nialv7 wrote: post #77

It's insane to me how the manager culture is. Somehow going from an engineer to a manager is a "promotion"? No, they are equals. Just different people doing different kinds of jobs. There should be two tracks and people should be able to choose. If engineers feel they have to become managers to grow their careers, all you are getting will just be unhappy engineers and bad managers.

> Just different people doing different kinds of jobs

Except the manager is the decider, and controls the fate of the IC. That makes them unequal, even if IC salaries were higher.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#242

Post by apexalpha »

zwaps wrote: post #73
skrebbel wrote: post #13

The press release ( https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/2026/strengtheni... ) seems remarkably to the point, for CEO press release standards. I'm impressed by their ambition to fire 1700 managers (!) That's a lot of managers! I interviewed with ASML a decade and a half ago and while there was plenty to complain about (eg their tens of millions of lines of absolutely unmaintainable C code), I didn't feel at th…

Many large corporations in Europe, especially in sectors of prior consistent growth and profit, are chock full of too many managers. These are people who primarily create work for themselves and each other. I have sat in meetings about meetings for actions that, ultimately, have zero impact, in teams where managers involve outnumber people who actually execute anything three to one. It's staggering. I believe the bes…

>Many large corporations in Europe, especially in sectors of prior consistent growth and profit, are chock full of too many managers.

As an engineer who 'jumped' to middle management: yes. 100% yes.

It's kinda disheartening and also a little bit insane to sit in a room with 12 people who learned CISSP and ISO27001 by heart but could not explain what SSH is or what a container does.

Everything has to first be abstracted away from tech into 'risks' and then 'controls' and then these controls have to be re-translated into actual changes in IT systems.

However, at every layer and every abstraction so much detail is lost that they're essentially steering blind.

Last week one of them suggested that we should whitelist the entire IPv4 range of AWS to allow some SaaS (Jira?) to connect to our internal Git.

The policy said to do whitelisting and so they all approved it until I challenged it.

Crazy to watch and honestly so disheartening that I might go do something else. Trying to affect change feels like leaning against a wall.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#243

Post by fcantournet »

direwolf20 wrote: post #215
lbreakjai wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who will need your labour if everyone else is unemployed?

Landlords, probably. The only people you have to keep paying even if they don't do anything and nobody is employed.

landlords need people to pay the rent. Or to spell it out more precisely : the construction/housing industry off of which land lords extract value needs external value creation to still exist AND give revenue to spend to a large population. "Houses are for people to live in" may be a communist slogan right now, but it's also very basic macro-economic reality.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#244

Post by apexalpha »

zeristor wrote: post #184
skrebbel wrote: post #13

The press release ( https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/2026/strengtheni... ) seems remarkably to the point, for CEO press release standards. I'm impressed by their ambition to fire 1700 managers (!) That's a lot of managers! I interviewed with ASML a decade and a half ago and while there was plenty to complain about (eg their tens of millions of lines of absolutely unmaintainable C code), I didn't feel at th…

So many companies came from Philips. ASML, NXP, and TSMC was largely boosted by Philips. My Dad was in the finance department of Mullards-> Philips Electronics for 30 years, seemed like part of the family. But Philips does seem to have given rise to many companies.

Philips was the European Samsung. They spun-off their divisions and now operate independently.

Even the OG division: lighting, has been spun off.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#245

Post by fancyfredbot »

tripledry wrote: post #206
budgefrankly wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most managers are no longer technical, and just create bloated middle layers that slow everyone else down. > The only managers that are decent are the ones that have kept their technical skills sharp. Alex Ferguson was a terrible footballer when he was managing Manchester United. Yet they won the premiership in 6 of his last 10 years in that role, and have never won it since he left. The skills that make one great…

Was in a company that didn't promote engineers (never saw this happen), only hired managers externally. Resulted in a management layer clueless about the work and product. Good management is rare.

Good management is rare partly because nobody wants to take risks and hire inexperienced management.

This leads to a reluctance to promote people without previous experience into management roles. This in turn leads to a shortage of experienced managers.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#246

Post by lan321 »

culi wrote: post #17
zhouzhao wrote: post #10

ASML understands what most big companies don't. If you don't reach your targets it's not the engineers fault. It's bad management ;)

ASML just set revenue records and its stock is surging due to the Q4 results

This is entirely unrelated to ASML, but:

This reminds me of a company I worked for recently, that, at the yearly meeting talking about the financial situation were all depressed as if we were broke since the profit (and revenue) was slightly less than last year, which was significantly higher than any other year in history with the year prior also being a record. This was essentially when the interest rates jumped after covid and businesses had to adapt so I'm sure it would have been another record if the economy in general wasn't doing worse that year.

Of course, they want to keep people from asking for raises and bonuses, but I found it very weird to see them act worried with the profit/revenue graphs at a crazy peak still.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#247

Post by jetsetk »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #67
Nition wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, white-collar work at all levels is eliminated, as are creative pursuits (art, music, etc), and we can finally return to humanity's true calling - manual labour.

This but unironically. I'm hoping I can get into the skilled blue collar labor before it gets flooded by the hordes of unemployed AI researchers circa the 2030s (likely 2028 lol). No I'm not even kidding

enjoy learning the job for 3 years before gettin replaced by the cheap floods

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#248

Post by m000 »

cbolton wrote: post #214
Freak_NL wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unemployment benefits are unconditional until you find a new job. They are quite conditional: you must be applying for a new job while receiving them, and after the first six months any job you can do is eligible (not just the jobs you would want to do). You must report your job applications to the unemployment agency, and you can get called in and cut off from benefits for not earnestly seeking a job.

I'm curious how that works in the extreme... Isn't prostitution legal in the Netherlands? A brothel can offer you a job and you have to accept?

"Any job you can do is eligible" is highly inaccurate. I went through this after my PhD funding in NL ran out, which is considered a layoff. I only had to demonstrate that I made some applications to relevant jobs. No pressure whatsoever to go work in some unrelated job.

Yes, the UWV [1] unemployment benefits are not perpetual (I don't recall the exact formula used to calculate the eligibility length). But even after your unemployment benefits stop, depending on the level of your savings, you may be eligible for receiving other benefits (e.g. health insurance and rent).

Overall, it is a very pro-worker system, with the major benefit of it being not "free money" (as US readers may assume), but the decreased leverage your employer has over you.

[1] https://www.uwv.nl/nl

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#249

Post by fancyfredbot »

joe_mamba wrote: post #104
alias_neo wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Qimonda Sorry for the tangent, I haven't heard this name in over 15 years, I interviewed with them the summer before the final year of my BEng, and was offered a job in China to allegedly built a real-time voice/video communications system between what they said were their three facilities in beautiful looking part of China I can't remember the name of now. Looking through my Gmail, it was 2008 they offered my the…

Thanks for sharing. You know what's ironic about Qimonda? China bought their IP after they went under, and used it to build two domestic NAND and DRAM manufacturers that are set to become giants. Funny how China has the vision to use, finance and monetize where western governments keep failing. That's what hurts the most to see. EU says they want a strong domestic electronics industry, but with the exception of ASML,…

I'm glad the EU isn't subsidising European DRAM and NAND. Those are typically very low margin business. It's unlikely the EU could have competed with China because of labour costs/rights.

Today we have a shortage in this sector and margins are good so it seems like a good idea. But it's likely a European company would have regularly lost money over the last 20 years and become an unpopular drain on EU finances.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#250

Post by joe_mamba »

andy_ppp wrote: post #237

If I was the EU I'd provide capital for ASML to build a 18A fab in Europe, the way the world is going we need our own capacity here...

ASML doesn't build fabs, they just built one tool for the job. That's like saying you're contracting Milwaukee to build you a house.
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