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Vibe coding kills open source

arxiv.org

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Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#241

Post by dimitri-vs »

aspenmartin wrote: post #230
II2II wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when LLMs can build you an custom(!) hammer or saw in a few minutes, why go to the shed? Because software developers typically understand how to implement a solution to problem better than the client. If they don't have enough details to implement a solution, they will ask the client for details. If the developer decides to use an LLM to implement a solution, they have the ability to assess the end product. The pro…

> Because software developers typically understand how to implement a solution to problem better than the client. If they don't have enough details to implement a solution, they will ask the client for details. If the developer decides to use an LLM to implement a solution, they have the ability to assess the end product. Why do you think agents can’t do that? They can’t do this really well today but if the distance…

Hallucinations are not solved, memory is not solved, prompt injection is not solved, context limits are waaay too low at the same time tokens way too expensive to take advantage of context limits, etc. These problems have existed since the very early days of GPT-4 and there is no clear path to them being solved any time soon.

You basically need AGI and we are nowhere close to AGI.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#242

Post by anticorporate »

tracker1 wrote: post #184
anticorporate wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the enormous value in apps being standardized and opinionated. Standardized means that in addition to documentation, the whole internet is available to help you. Opinionated means as a user of an app in a new domain, you don't have to make a million decisions about how something should work to just get started. Sure, there will be more personalized apps for those who have a lot of expertise in…

I've seen plenty of "standardized" (ie, "Enterprise" applications)... I'd just assume a bespoke hammer that's simple and easy to understand over a complex beast of HammerFactoryFactory to deliver you a builder of custom hammer builders so you get the JobHammer you need as part of the IoC loader platform that is then controlled through a 1.2gb service orchestrator that breaks at 11am every third Tuesday for an hour. W…

A standardized hammer can just be a carpenter's hammer, though. Putting a nail pull on the back side is making it opinionated in a way that gives users access to a tool that they may not have thought of if they built their own hammer, but very well might appreciate having.

This isn't a defense of enterprise applications, though. They're more like a shed fully of rusty tools with a thirty different coping saws blades and not a single handle because corporate policy only allows for you to have a handle if Joe from accounting says you can, but why would he when his VP confidently said you can just hold the blade between your fingers.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#243

Post by dimitri-vs »

WarmWash wrote: post #235
rurp wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of users make zero changes to the default settings of an app or device, even for software they use all the time and where some simple builtin adjustments would significantly improve their experience. I simply can't imagine a world where these same people all decide they constantly want to learn a completely unique UX for whatever piece of software they want to use.

Your missing the forest for the trees here. Users will not fumble with the complex web of nested settings that engineers wet dream about. But they will tell the LLM "I'd really like it if the tool bar only had the hammer and saw tools", and it will be done. I cannot see software going in any other direction than a blank front end that users prompt LLMs to run scripts on top of. Picture MS Word where the GUI is just a…

> Picture MS Word where the GUI is just a page and a sidebar for telling an LLM what you want it to do.

Done. And it seems absolutely awful.

"Please bold the text I have selected" instead of a preexisting bold button.

Oh wait I can just tell it all the tools I commonly use and where to put them... Hmmm topbar or side bar. Wow so much fun getting to make all these decisions!

Ok time to change fonts. "Please add a font picker so I can pick a font"

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#244

Post by GoatInGrey »

WarmWash wrote: post #29

Small bespoke personalized on the spot apps are the future with LLMs. The future will absolutely not be "How things are today + LLMs" The paradigm now for software is "build a tool shed/garage/barn/warehouse full of as much capability for as many uses possible" but when LLMs can build you a custom(!) hammer or saw in a few minutes, why go to the shed?

My personal theory is that as the excitement for LLMs normalizes, we'll land on something evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Prompt programming will take over what used to be quick/amateur micro programs (this includes userspace "developers"). Skilled developers will operate on a spectrum: all manual code at one extreme, and at the other extreme, manually defining just the essential patterns that prompt programming can reasonably build upon.

I do not suspect that we will stay in an individualized programs Tower of Babel situation, if we ever enter it in the first place.

It's anyone's guess as to what we end up settling on, of course. This is just a guess of mine.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#245

Post by jcarrano »

WarmWash wrote: post #29

Small bespoke personalized on the spot apps are the future with LLMs. The future will absolutely not be "How things are today + LLMs" The paradigm now for software is "build a tool shed/garage/barn/warehouse full of as much capability for as many uses possible" but when LLMs can build you a custom(!) hammer or saw in a few minutes, why go to the shed?

The 3d-printer of software: get a custom part quickly and cheaply, even if not suitable for mass production.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#246

Post by rglover »

tracker1 wrote: post #196
rglover wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you trust your hand next to a saw made by an LLM?

Maybe. Were the designs reviewed by qualified engineers and gone trough rigorous QA cycles before getting placed in front of me?

Nope. 100% vibe coded. The brand is DeValt. It may or may not come with a frayed power cord wrapped in electrical tape. As long as you stay away from any water source, it'll be fine.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#247

Post by gegtik »

koakuma-chan wrote: post #148
echelon wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't have to ignore this stuff for long. Pretty soon it'll be mandatory to keep up. I've been a senior engineer doing large scale active-active, five nines distributed systems that process billions of dollars of transactions daily. These are well thought out systems with 20+ folks on design document reviews. Not all of the work falls into that category, though. There's so much plumbing and maintenance and wiring…

> Holy hell HN, downvoted to -4 in record time. Y'all don't like what's happening, but it's really happening. I gave you an upvote FWIW, after all, I mean, my job's codebase is already a buggy mess, so it doesn't hurt to throw AI on it, which is what I do. > You might not need your employer anymore. If you can do sales and wear many hats, you'll do exceedingly well. Wasn't this the case before AI as well?

right, but the productivity boost provides further leverage

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#248

Post by MSFT_Edging »

WarmWash wrote: post #29

Small bespoke personalized on the spot apps are the future with LLMs. The future will absolutely not be "How things are today + LLMs" The paradigm now for software is "build a tool shed/garage/barn/warehouse full of as much capability for as many uses possible" but when LLMs can build you a custom(!) hammer or saw in a few minutes, why go to the shed?

This is only a realistic expectation for the single person who needs that hammer.

Otherwise we'll all individually be burning power via GPUs to reinvent the wheel thousands of times.

Also, look at the level of effort to maintain any bespoke machine. Assembly lines with interchangeable parts were a big deal for a reason. That follows with software via standard libraries and APIs. If you reinvent your software wheel every time, we'll all have careers trying to fix the deluge of slop that has been generated.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#250

Post by charcircuit »

WarmWash wrote: post #235
rurp wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of users make zero changes to the default settings of an app or device, even for software they use all the time and where some simple builtin adjustments would significantly improve their experience. I simply can't imagine a world where these same people all decide they constantly want to learn a completely unique UX for whatever piece of software they want to use.

Your missing the forest for the trees here. Users will not fumble with the complex web of nested settings that engineers wet dream about. But they will tell the LLM "I'd really like it if the tool bar only had the hammer and saw tools", and it will be done. I cannot see software going in any other direction than a blank front end that users prompt LLMs to run scripts on top of. Picture MS Word where the GUI is just a…

That only requires apps to be configurable. You don't need a whole new app to configure a toolbar.
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