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Yes, It's Fascism

theatlantic.com

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Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#241

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

nicbou wrote: post #233
Zigurd wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Techno accelerationists don't like to be reminded of their complicity.

Every thread about US politics has this comment, and the same response: this is not the right outlet, and some people feel like this content does not fit the topic of the website. If you are not American, it’s rather tiring to have every website and news outlet talk about it ad nauseum, and have it take over every subreddit and conversation. Americans get all uppity when you tell them that you don’t want that, as if…

You will be affected by the (hypothetical) fall of American hegemony, whether it’s increased aggression in spheres of influence (Russia, China, India), market failures, or even a fracturing or collapse of digital services (Azure, AWS).

I don’t understand the insistence that this isn’t on topic. Hard not to paint it as anything but willfully ignorant.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#242

Post by ZeroGravitas »

It's useful to rewind and see the tests people put in place before the thing happened.

Like this VOX article surveying experts on fascism in 2015 and then revisiting in 2020:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21521958/what-is-fas...

> But there is still no state management of the economy here (as there was to a degree in Nazi Germany and fascist Italy). Trump is content to aid business by reducing government protections of the environment and of workers … and his economic policy is mainly just to let businessmen do what they want.

Well, we can check that one off the list with 2024 hindsight.

>He’s never actually done a Putin and tried to make himself a permanent president, let alone suggest any coherent plan for overthrowing the constitutional system. And I don’t even think that’s in his mind

And another one bites the dust.

Note that all the scholars who get very technical on what they want to call Fascist all compare him to Marcos, Erdogan, Milosovic. That's still not a good review.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#243

Post by palata »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #232
palata wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am totally against ICE, but I came here to say that I agree with the parent. In situations of stress like this, you never know how one may react. It takes a great deal of training to be able to stay calm and rational in such situations. Obviously, the ICE agents have to rationalise what they do. "We are the good guy, we work against the bad guys". But I don't think that they wake up in the morning hoping that they…

> It takes a great deal of training to be able to stay calm and rational in such situations. Then why are they letting people take these positions without specific training and why are they letting them return to work immediately after making fatal mistakes? Why are those above them immediately covering up their mistakes and why are their colleagues illegally tampering with evidence after the events take place?

I totally agree.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#245

Post by Hikikomori »

ModernMech wrote: post #221
Kaibeezy wrote: post #25

If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance, not political in form — test-fitting an imprecise definition. The fact it also reaches a firm conclusion (spoiler alert right there in the title) is depoliticized by allowing for malleable application. A benchmark article I will now go share elsewhere. What’s left to talk about? How to react…

It's nice but also endlessly frustrating and very very late, because what he regards as overuse of the term is really just people who were applying the term correctly for the past 10 years as people like the author refused to call a spade a spade. If the nascent fascist were discarded, people would have stopped saying it so much. The problem for people like the author is that other more astute individuals [1] correct…

This is it. Trump doesn't really matter anymore, he will likely be dead by the next election. Why it doesn't matter is because its all project 2025 people now, they're using Trump to further their goals and those hove some overlap with Trumps wants. Their main goal is that there will be no transfer of power away from them again. Like the 2020 election they will try many different things, but will likely succeed as the party now is mostly loyalists, the entire white house cabinet as well, so does most of the government as a goal of project 2025 wasn't just RAGE, it was also to hire replacements. And now they have very well funded goons in training to deploy when needed.

Back in 2024 after reading project 2025 and about its authors and backers (federalist society, Thiel, Vance, other tech CEOs, Curtis Yarvin, etc) it was already clear that this was going to happen. I was already convinced that the only way out of this was a general strike and/or military coup, and it doesn't look any better now. I fear an Iran like crackdown is in the deck now.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#246

Post by [deleted] »

Hikikomori wrote: post #245
ModernMech wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nice but also endlessly frustrating and very very late, because what he regards as overuse of the term is really just people who were applying the term correctly for the past 10 years as people like the author refused to call a spade a spade. If the nascent fascist were discarded, people would have stopped saying it so much. The problem for people like the author is that other more astute individuals [1] correct…

This is it. Trump doesn't really matter anymore, he will likely be dead by the next election. Why it doesn't matter is because its all project 2025 people now, they're using Trump to further their goals and those hove some overlap with Trumps wants. Their main goal is that there will be no transfer of power away from them again. Like the 2020 election they will try many different things, but will likely succeed as th…

[deleted]

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#247

Post by Schmerika »

hysan wrote: post #217
mickle00 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish there was more transparency around mod actions

I think it isn’t mod actions but rather the very likely fact that there is a small, but large enough group of flaggers who will act in unison to remove any such post from the front page. If you want an affirmation of the efficacy of the moderation system, what you should want is transparency into the voting behaviors of the population. If you see a heavy voting correlation between flagged posts and either a specific…

> it isn’t mod actions

It's intentional inaction. From the mods.

This post, and many many others, ought to have been unflagged.

So, so, so many popular and active stories about Musk and DOGE and Trump have been removed this past year, while at the same time Garry Tan and PG were cheering them on on their Twitter feeds.

People who call this out too much get banned. For super unrelated reasons, apparently.

Dang has explicitly disallowed any and all posts talking about the weaknesses of the flag system. IT'S PROTECTED.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#248

Post by Schmerika »

stellalo wrote: post #225

This should not be flagged. Flagging this: that’s fascism.

HN has always had topics that aren't permitted to be discussed; no matter how relevant or how popular, or how polite the discussions are.

However, this past year has been extreme. Seeing how everything related to Musk and DOGE was removed, for example, was extraordinary.

Anyone who thinks this forum lives up to its rhetoric is simply flat wrong. This place is now a testament to the effectiveness of clever censorship.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#249

Post by throw0101c »

ikidd wrote: post #171
throw0101c wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance […] Also perhaps worth noting that David Frum, former speech writer to Dubya Bush, writes for The Atlantic (and has been against Trump from the start: see his book Trumpocracy ): * https://www.theatlantic.com/author/david-frum/ So we're not just talking about 'leftists' criticizing these ac…

And was a pretty rabid conservative until the Trump era. He only left the Republicans in 2024, he was around for the first term. Maybe he's grown a spine.

> He only left the Republicans in 2024, he was around for the first term.

Yes, he hoped to fight from the inside, but recognized that the GOP had been taken over my inmates.

In 2016 he voted for Clinton and urged others to do so:

> Surely the American system of government is more robust than the Turkish or Hungarian or Polish or Malaysian or Italian systems. But that is not automatically true. It is true because of the active vigilance of freedom-loving citizens who put country first, party second. Not in many decades has that vigilance been required as it is required now.

> Your hand may hesitate to put a mark beside the name, Hillary Clinton. You’re not doing it for her. The vote you cast is for the republic and the Constitution.

* https://archive.is/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#250

Post by Schmerika »

RealityVoid wrote: post #111
fugalfervor wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that? They have posted multiple times in this thread with basically the same post.

I think his edit? I read the edit as him pointing out that political posts get flagged on the front page. But it's obviously not flagged because of the rules, it's flagged because _someone_ is flagging this stuff. I say this because the first minutes of the post existence, it oscillated between flagged and un-flagged. Surely, we also triggered the comment activity trigger that auto-flags the post, some anti-flamewar…

> it's obviously not flagged because of the rules, it's flagged because _someone_ is flagging this stuff

Dang was commenting in this thread 8 hours ago - and the post is still flagged.

There's simply no good excuse for that to be the case. And this is far from the first time. Conclusions must be drawn.

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