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Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

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Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#241
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NT is a monolithic kernel and "hybrid kernel" is a pure marketing term. You can move functionality out of the kernel into userspace or not. There is no in-between. I also don't get why people claim NT is "better." Linux is a modern kernel under very active development.

The graphic stack in NT is done in a microkernel fashion, it runs in kernel space but doesn't (generally) crash the whole OS in case of bugs. There are a few interviews of Dave Cutler (NT's architect) around where he explains this far better than I am here. Overall, you have classic needs and if you don't care about OSS (either for auditability, for customizability or for philosophical choice about open source), it's…

Parts of the kernel can be made more resilient against failures, but that won't make it a microkernel. It'll still run in a shared address space without hardware isolation. It's just not possible to get the benefits of microkernels without actually making it one.

Also Linux being OSS can't be dismissed because it means it'll have features that Microsoft isn't interested in for Windows.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#242

As a Windows system and user-mode dev, I absolutely never understand these sorts of drive-by posts with nearly zero technical depth. If there is one thing about Windows that is really good, it is its kernel and driver architecture, and absolute plethora of user-mode libraries that come with the OS , that can be programmed against with a variety of languages from ancient to brand-new, all maintained by the vendor. Doi…

>Windows is the only OS that does scaling properly. macOS just pretends non-'retina' displays don't exist Not true. I use a high-DPI (~250) MacBook with a non-high-DPI (~100) external monitor [0] and the transition between the two is seamless. Windows are identically sized when dragging from one screen to another. The same holds true when I use the laptop with a mid-DPI (~150) monitor. I could not say the same was tr…

>macOS is able to achieve consistent sizing across displays irrespective of pixel density because it . . . downsamples it proportionally for each screen

For me, the most important consideration is to complete avoid downsampling -- because it makes everything blurry.

On both macOS and Linux, the way I do that is to choose to scale the UI by an integral factor (usually 200% in my case) and then (since 200% makes things a little bigger than I prefer) fine tune the apps in which I spend most of my time (namely, Emacs and my browser).

Specifically, on Linux, Emacs relies on GTK to draw its window, which IIUC cannot do fractional scaling, so if I were to set a fractional scaling factor in Gnome Settings, then Emacs would be blurry whereas there is no blurriness when I set an integral scaling factor in Gnome and use something like (set-face-attribute 'default nil :height 90) to adjust the size of text in Emacs.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#243
post #217
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re thinking apples and oranges. Remember that every K-12 student for the last decade is getting it done on the cheapest low bid Chromebook possible. They are true pieces of shit, too-down managed by barely qualified people and yet the kids persevere. That’s the baseline. Windows is an evolution of 1999, slowly shifting to the shitty cloud based model. It is the worst of both worlds. It’s like Peoplesoft in comput…

K-12 american student... I am quite certain there are zero of those devices on my German school neighborhood, or the school on my home district back in Portugal.

> K-12 american student...

And Sweden, and Austria, and there are probably others.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#244
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern Linux supports asynchronous I/O. It's debatable whether NT's lack of memory overcommitting is a superior choice. OS personalities have never been relevant outside of marketing and might even be technical debt at this point, as virtualization offers a more effective solution with significantly less complexity. Moreover, the Linux kernel maintains a stable ABI. Much of the discussion surrounding NT's supposed su…

> Modern Linux supports asynchronous I/O. Not nearly to the depth and breth of NT. NT is async I/O throughout. Linux has a bunch of libs that ride on top of pretend async I/O with io_uring as a more recent bonus. > It's debatable whether NT's lack of memory overcommitting is a superior choice. NT won't randomly kill a process. That's the winning play. > OS personalities have never been relevant outside of marketing U…

> Not nearly to the depth and breth of NT. NT is async I/O throughout. Linux has a bunch of libs that ride on top of pretend async I/O with io_uring as a more recent bonus.

Is this a purity thing or does it have practical implications?

> NT won't randomly kill a process. That's the winning play.

Every OS will have to when it runs out of resources. No overcommitting means it's less resource-efficient too, so things aren't that simple.

> Until you've used them for non-marketing purposes, then they're invaluable. Personalities existed when virtualization didn't exist on x86.

When have OS personalities ever been a commercial success? Every product that built on it went nowhere.

> The only stable ABI on Linux is Win32.

Containers and Flatpaks prove otherwise. Static binaries exist, too.

Also, if you're extending this Linux / Windows comparison to include the userland, then Windows is no match for Linux. Not when Microsoft is actively sabotaging Windows.

> Having access to a ton of file systems is great, but the usage outside of ext4 is going to be comparatively low.

What on earth? There's more use to filesystems than mounting it at root. Are you really claiming that OS personalities are useful, but being able to mount any filesystem is not? That's absurd.

> FUSE is also on Win32 via https://winfsp.dev/rel/

Which doesn't mean much without an ecosystem of programs using WinFsp that's comparable to Linux. Moreover, the long-term development of WinFsp isn't guaranteed, and there remains the risk that Microsoft could introduce changes that might impede the functionality of third-party filesystems.

> It's an uninformed blog post.

Uninformed? While an official Windows-themed Linux distro doesn't make sense, the observation that Windows is declining and Microsoft no longer cares at all what users think is very much correct and obvious to anyone. The fact that Microsoft hasn't ceased development doesn't negate this fact.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#245
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant for installing on root though; these look like they're for "side drives"?

It's possible during setup though I'm not sure how supported it is. Not sure why you'd really want to, writes are much slower than NTFS in general due to journaling.

For the same reason I want btrfs or ZFS on Linux; cheap snapshots so if something breaks I can easily restore to a safe point.

A large part of my complaints about Windows Update have come because it can brick your machine, System Restore doesn’t work, and so you’re stuck spending a weekend trying to back up and fix stuff.

When I ran Ubuntu with ZFS on root, I had it so that I every time apt was run, it took a snapshot. This came in handy when my WiFi driver got borked during an update; I was able to restore from a previous point, it took like ten minutes.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#246
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think OPs point is that people are going to eventually abandon the sinking Windows ship, because gamers are going to soon abandon ship en-masse. That certainly tracks for me (mostly a non-gaming Windows user). It follows that, at some threshold number of users, it becomes much cheaper to ship a Linux distro than to continue to support Windows proper. :shrug: Guess we'll see in 15 years.

Yeah, that is why Valve needs Proton. /s Game studios don't care about Linux on the client side.

Game studios care about selling games. If 3% of gamers game on Linux, game studios don't have to care much about it. If 30% game on Linux, they do have to care.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#247
post #221

Eric S. Raymond wrote the same erotic fanfic a few years back just before his blog went kaputski ( http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8764 ). It won't happen, because the NT kernel is a massive improvement in architecture over Linux or any conventional Unix—and Microsoft has proven, with WSL1 and 2, that they can achieve Linux compatibility while still basing everything on the NT kernel. Switching the Windows ecosystem to the…

Pluton is already required on CoPilot+ PC branded devices. Those ARM laptops that people are wishing there were more to chose from.

The newer amd and Intel systems are also copilot certified. After getting a new laptop last month I can say that it doesn't hurt and has some nice advantages. If you just ignore the stupid names. The NPU means your images can now get indexed by content without ruining your battery life for example, same thing with recall. Without certain hardware requirements there's no way these things could run on device.

Now MS just needs to keep working and refining these features that don't sell copilot subscriptions...

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#248
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think OPs point is that people are going to eventually abandon the sinking Windows ship, because gamers are going to soon abandon ship en-masse. That certainly tracks for me (mostly a non-gaming Windows user). It follows that, at some threshold number of users, it becomes much cheaper to ship a Linux distro than to continue to support Windows proper. :shrug: Guess we'll see in 15 years.

Yeah, that is why Valve needs Proton. /s Game studios don't care about Linux on the client side.

... what ..?

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#250
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

K-12 american student... I am quite certain there are zero of those devices on my German school neighborhood, or the school on my home district back in Portugal.

> K-12 american student... And Sweden, and Austria, and there are probably others.

Might be, I am only used to countries where families are still expected to buy their own computers, or get to share one among the family, and school life is still quite analog.

Actually I would love to see a report per worldwide schools, to settle this argument about high adoption of Chromebooks outside USA.

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