How AI labs are solving the power problem • Hacker News Board

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#241

Post by deburo » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 1:58 PM UTC

lawn wrote: post #130

mucle6 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrasing 'historically black neighborhoods' feels like it pushes a specific agenda rather than just addressing the pollution. It implies that if this were happening near a non black neighborhood, it wouldn’t be as egregious, which is a strange moral stance. Also 'historically' is irrelevant. Pollution hurts the people living there now.

> It implies that if this were happening near a non black neighborhood, it wouldn’t be as egregious, which is a strange moral stance. I read it the other way: that it simply wouldn't happen in a white neighborhood.

Isn’t the Memphis city admin mainly composed of blacks?

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#242

Post by Lerc » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 2:44 PM UTC

scrollop wrote: post #228

Lerc wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like an odd framing. For my part I am prepared to accept that XAI might attempt to flout regulations. If I knew more about their operating practices I might even expect it. Even in that case I would not expect it to be the case that you could assume that they had done in any individual case. While this isn't criminal law, the principle that underlies innocent until proven guilty still applies. I don't thin…

You weaponized your argument, and perhaps showed your political leaning, by invoking "agenda pushing". That immediately caused us to think "What's your agenda". Another commenter wrote a rebuke - we're waiting for your response.

I did not invoke agenda pushing. I referred to the use of the term in the conversation above.

If anything my agenda here is to suggest to people that they should not imagine the opinions that exist in other people's minds and to respond to what they say and do.

If you must know my political leaning, It would be a non-relativistic form of far left. By non-relativistic I mean based upon a principle that is fixed cannot change. That principle is compassion. To some this makes me right wing because I reject demonisation of the wealthy, I defend radicalised people from abuse, I criticize the use of violent imagery like the guillotine by people who consider themselves Left wing. In simple political compass terms I am a left liberal. I don't feel that captures the sentiment exactly.

George Orwell once reflected on the term fascist, since due to his writing he was often called upon as an arbitor to categorize instances. Essentially concluding that the term had largely lost meaning due to people applying it to whatever they didn't like. He is often quoted with the same complaint that people have to this day. However most quotes do not place it fully in context. He wrote: "...almost any English person would accept 'bully' as a synonym for 'Fascist'. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come". I think there is a critical point here. My left wing principle of compassion goes against the principles of many self identifying left wing people of bullying those who's opinions they disagree with. That's not a progressive stance, it is taking the ground newly won by progressives as the new normal. In time they will come to fight the progressives as they remain stationary and the progressives, ...well, progress

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#243

Post by immibis » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 3:02 PM UTC

badc0ffee wrote: post #199

ACCount37 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check the map. There's an operational industrial scale natural gas power plant next door to xAI facility. And it was there for what, a decade already? Before it, there was a coal power plant there too. Basically, it looks like the whole "xAI poisoning black neighborhoods" thing is the usual FUD by the usual agenda pushers.

I just looked, and you're right. It's in an industrial area several km from homes, and near existing NG facilities, including one where they flare gas. https://www.facebook.com/abacustrategic/posts/pfbid02rrUwoWM... https://maps.app.goo.gl/fYwcSi8vfPBnsYeK7 I don't doubt that it is a source of pollution, but I agree that this is overblown in the same was as the claims that datacentres are using up all the fresh water…

It's not overblown. That plant has sufficient pollution filters installed. You can find more info elsewhere in this comment section.

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#244

Post by Lerc » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 3:05 PM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #240

Lerc wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like an odd framing. For my part I am prepared to accept that XAI might attempt to flout regulations. If I knew more about their operating practices I might even expect it. Even in that case I would not expect it to be the case that you could assume that they had done in any individual case. While this isn't criminal law, the principle that underlies innocent until proven guilty still applies. I don't thin…

What "flawed argument" ? All facts and evidence have been provided - the measured nitrogen dioxide increase of ~80% will harm the respiratory system. Folks who cause harm should be punished not excused.

I am not referring to any particular argument here, I mentioned it to place in context one of my motivations to challenging ideas is to seek the truth, not to prove my point of view correct.

It was bought up here because it seemed like the post I was replying to was contesting the reasons for making a point rather than the point it was making.

>Folks who cause harm should be punished not excused.

In this instance I think the issue is not think that was suggested otherwise. The issue was more of Are the claims true, Does it have the impact stated, and who caused them.

Personally I do not want those who cause harm to be punished. I want them to not cause harm. Seeking vengeance on harm already done is unlikely to lead to an understanding of why their actions were harmful. It motivates them to not get caught in future, I would much rather they not want to harm.

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#245

Post by ptx » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 3:24 PM UTC

There's not a single mention of pollution or clean energy or the environment in the entire article. Presumably the regulatory requirements for these generators are less stringent than for proper power plants, so the costs are pushed onto the rest of society (having to deal with the environmental impact) while Microsoft et al. keep the profits?

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#246

Post by dalyons » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 4:05 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #179

throwaway-11-1 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question - what are artists being freed up to do that’s more important? DoorDash?

Honest answer - making more art. Think about how much cloud computing and open sourced changed it so you could launch a startup with 3 engineers instead of 20. What happened? An explosion of startups, since there were so many more engineers to go around. The engineers weren't delivering pizzas instead. Same thing is happening with anything that needs more art -- the potential for video games here is extraordinary. A…

Reality is they’re just getting fired.

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#247

Post by all_factz » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 4:21 PM UTC

Lerc wrote: post #242

scrollop wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You weaponized your argument, and perhaps showed your political leaning, by invoking "agenda pushing". That immediately caused us to think "What's your agenda". Another commenter wrote a rebuke - we're waiting for your response.

I did not invoke agenda pushing. I referred to the use of the term in the conversation above. If anything my agenda here is to suggest to people that they should not imagine the opinions that exist in other people's minds and to respond to what they say and do. If you must know my political leaning, It would be a non-relativistic form of far left. By non-relativistic I mean based upon a principle that is fixed cannot…

“I reject demonisation of the wealthy” is quite an odd thing for someone identifying as “far left” to say. But then you go on to identify as a “left liberal” - canonically not considered far left - so maybe I shouldn’t be surprised.

Whether it’s worth demonizing anyone or not, we can condemn actions that hurt innocent people and we can maintain skepticism of the ultra-wealthy and their motives without “bullying”. It does sound like your principle of compassion extends a little too much towards capital and not enough towards labor.

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#248

Post by crazygringo » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 4:40 PM UTC

dalyons wrote: post #246

crazygringo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest answer - making more art. Think about how much cloud computing and open sourced changed it so you could launch a startup with 3 engineers instead of 20. What happened? An explosion of startups, since there were so many more engineers to go around. The engineers weren't delivering pizzas instead. Same thing is happening with anything that needs more art -- the potential for video games here is extraordinary. A…

Reality is they’re just getting fired.

Except reality is they're not. If you want to argue the contrary, show the statistics that unemployment among digital artists is rising.

So many people make this mistake when new technologies come out, thinking they'll replace workers. They just make workers more productive. Sometimes people do end up shifting to different fields, but there's so much commercial demand for art assets in so many things, the labor market shrinking is not the case for digital artists right now.

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#249

Post by Lerc » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 5:11 PM UTC

all_factz wrote: post #247

Lerc wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not invoke agenda pushing. I referred to the use of the term in the conversation above. If anything my agenda here is to suggest to people that they should not imagine the opinions that exist in other people's minds and to respond to what they say and do. If you must know my political leaning, It would be a non-relativistic form of far left. By non-relativistic I mean based upon a principle that is fixed cannot…

“I reject demonisation of the wealthy” is quite an odd thing for someone identifying as “far left” to say. But then you go on to identify as a “left liberal” - canonically not considered far left - so maybe I shouldn’t be surprised. Whether it’s worth demonizing anyone or not, we can condemn actions that hurt innocent people and we can maintain skepticism of the ultra-wealthy and their motives without “bullying”. It…

Therein lies the rub, when people are surprised to see a left wing person criticising the idea of othering, you have to wonder what principles they have left to call left wing.

>we can condemn actions that hurt innocent people and we can maintain skepticism of the ultra-wealthy and their motives without “bullying”.

Indeed and I do condemn actions. What I don't do is conddemn people.

I am for robust regulation, free expression, free movement, worker rights, Limiting wealth inequality, free fundimental services of health educatiion. I want more police but with fewer powers. I support harm minimalization over punishing drug users, I favour rehabilitation in prison over training recidivists, I am against hate in all its forms. My most extreme views would be that advertising is inherently harmful to society, and teaching any religion as true to someone under the age of consent is child abuse.

All of these come from the principle that I think all people have feelings,worthless and rights, they deserve the best we can provide for them. If they disagree with you the first step is trying to understand their point of view.

To me, imposing your will on others, dismissing people for thinking the wrong thing, shunning them for saying the wrong thing or associating with 5he wrong people, these are all properties that stand at the other end of the spectrum to me. I don't particularly care what label you put on the ideology over there, but whatever it is, those are the attributes that have caused some of the darkest moments in h7man history.

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#250

Post by rangestransform » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 5:18 PM UTC

thisgetsit wrote: post #142

g8oz wrote: post #101

>>xAI entirely bypassed the grid and generated power onsite, using truck-mounted gas turbines and engines. These generators polluted the nearby historically black neighborhoods in Memphis Tennessee with nitrogen oxides. Residents are afraid to open their windows, with the elderly, children and those suffering from conditions like COPD particularly affected. Lawsuits alleging environmental racism are pending. xAI says…

> xAI says cleaner generators will be installed but I think this episode shows that we cannot allow public interests to be compromised by private sector so easily just because they scream: Jobs! Investment! 80ish% in the US live It would be wise to see "jobs!" Investment!" as little more than a mafioso like threat to agrarian-stay in one place-work to live types. "Sure is a nice Shire you got there. Better hope it do…

The alternative to multiple jurisdictions racing to the bottom is strong centralized control to prevent anyone from racing to the bottom. That will be an even worse pill than datacenter pollution to swallow for Americans. Only the big cities are big enough to resist the race.