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My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

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Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#241

Post by schmuckonwheels »

amrocha wrote: post #207
habinero wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the original poster, but that was snark and not meant literally. Also, building your own plane is absolutely worse, even if you do have expert-level knowledge. That's true for any complex design. Aircraft design, material sourcing, fabrication, assembly and quality control are all very different skill sets, but the real kicker is experience. The reason why commercial aircraft are so safe is a lot of work goes int…

Nope, not snark. You can’t believe that you’re better than everyone else and everyone else is incompetent and still function in society. If you do then you probably have an undiagnosed mental illness.

>You can’t believe that you’re better than everyone else and everyone else is incompetent and still function in society.

Welcome to HN.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#242

Post by immibis »

themafia wrote: post #188
viccis wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really.

You can tariff a single company.

The normal response to a company importing illegal products is to seize them at the border, destroy them, and, optionally, send the importer a big fine. This is already an established process.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#243

Post by themafia »

immibis wrote: post #242
themafia wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can tariff a single company.

The normal response to a company importing illegal products is to seize them at the border, destroy them, and, optionally, send the importer a big fine. This is already an established process.

> importing illegal products

What's "illegal" about these products?

> send the importer a big fine.

And that gets paid?

> This is already an established process.

And has it ever been used for /civil/ software GPL violations?

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#244

Post by amrocha »

schmuckonwheels wrote: post #241
amrocha wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, not snark. You can’t believe that you’re better than everyone else and everyone else is incompetent and still function in society. If you do then you probably have an undiagnosed mental illness.

>You can’t believe that you’re better than everyone else and everyone else is incompetent and still function in society. Welcome to HN.

This post has been a wake up call. I need to be more careful who I bother responding to.

This reminds me of the time I found out there’s a ton of libertarians here that think drivers licenses are oppression.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#245

Post by amrocha »

mindslight wrote: post #224
amrocha wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, not snark. You can’t believe that you’re better than everyone else and everyone else is incompetent and still function in society. If you do then you probably have an undiagnosed mental illness.

The problem is that the system incentivizes incompetence. The mechanics who are paid a skilled wage, take their time, and double check to make sure they are not missing anything show up as big red problems on the beancounters' spreadsheets and get optimized away. The system can make up for this in other ways like repeatability of processes, redundancy, etc. Which is why commercial aviation is safer than general aviat…

I don’t even disagree with you about the system incentives. I hate capitalism just as much as you!

But I still trust the institutions around me to keep me safe. Obviously that depends on where you live, I wouldn’t feel the same way if I still lived in Brazil.

Last time I went to a doctor was about 3 years ago. They diagnosed me in 5 minutes, and took another 10 to treat me and write me a prescription. It was great, I loved it.

Sounds like you have this trust issue with lots of different areas of your life, it might be worth reexamining your own perspective. Or maybe you just have to move to somewhere that you do trust.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#246

Post by RichardLake »

RHSeeger wrote: post #236
RichardLake wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you disagree with this logic? You distribute GPL code to me on a dvd. I give that dvd to someone else. I have not made a copy of the source code, so copyright does not come into this. If instead I copied the dvd and emailed the iso to someone else I would be distributing and copyright comes into it.

The GPL binds _everyone_ who distributes GPL-covered work, including resellers. It doesn't matter if you made a copy of it, you are distributing it.

No it doesn't. It can not bind someone that has not agreed to it. A failure to agree might mean they are infringing on copy-right and is liable for damages, but it is wrong to say it binds everyone that distributes it.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#247

Post by RHSeeger »

RichardLake wrote: post #246
RHSeeger wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GPL binds _everyone_ who distributes GPL-covered work, including resellers. It doesn't matter if you made a copy of it, you are distributing it.

No it doesn't. It can not bind someone that has not agreed to it. A failure to agree might mean they are infringing on copy-right and is liable for damages, but it is wrong to say it binds everyone that distributes it.

They are distributing it without the right to distribute it. The only thing that allows them to distribute it is agreeing to the license/contract to do it in a specific way. If they don't do that, they don't have the right to distribute it. The person they got it from saying otherwise doesn't change that.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#248

Post by mindslight »

amrocha wrote: post #245
mindslight wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the system incentivizes incompetence. The mechanics who are paid a skilled wage, take their time, and double check to make sure they are not missing anything show up as big red problems on the beancounters' spreadsheets and get optimized away. The system can make up for this in other ways like repeatability of processes, redundancy, etc. Which is why commercial aviation is safer than general aviat…

I don’t even disagree with you about the system incentives. I hate capitalism just as much as you! But I still trust the institutions around me to keep me safe. Obviously that depends on where you live, I wouldn’t feel the same way if I still lived in Brazil. Last time I went to a doctor was about 3 years ago. They diagnosed me in 5 minutes, and took another 10 to treat me and write me a prescription. It was great, I…

I'm glad for you that you've had good experiences so far! "Diagnosed me in 5 minutes" doesn't sound like anywhere near a complex medical issue though.

I certainly keep trying to obtain good results from the system, ie extend trust, but situations routinely run aground. Can you really say it's a "trust issue" when the problem is that I dig into details of situations and repeatedly discover how so-called professionals abjectly drop key issues on the floor?

Latest example: I need a new dishwasher. I should be able to read some reviews, spend $1k, and get the problem solved, right? Guess again - first delivery, a dent (crease) in the tub from the thing being slammed so hard that its plastic frame deformed and pushed up into the metal tub. Second delivery - loud noise from wash motor. I try to engage with warranty service figuring I'd be fine with them swapping the whole pump assembly. Nope, the guy that comes can't even be assed to do his job either! "Oh that's normal so there is nothing to fix, this is a good model, you should keep it". Third try, wash motor sounds a little better but still has a problem. The third set of delivery guys didn't even take away unit #2 for the exchange (even though I even pushed back when they said someone else was going to come later). I had wanted to simply pay money to solve the problem, but instead I'm left with two noisy dishwashers and a big ole project in my court. (do I keep pushing this exchange button? do I just order a new pump assembly and fix it myself, considering the bonus dishwasher compensation for that? do I say fuck it to the whole brand and rethink the purchase decision?)

Sure, I could drop my standards here, check out, and stop caring about the details. The dented tub probably wouldn't leak a decade down the line, the loud motor isn't really that big of a deal if I only run it overnight, and if the motor needs replacing in a few years it's only a $200 repair. But should not giving in to this "best effort" service (after paying $1k) really be considered a "me" problem? It seems more like an economy problem, with me only being exceptional for noticing, having some expertise on how these things should function, and having the willingness to push back.

(although I am thankful that the thing in the front of my mind that I'm frustrated with is an appliance rather than dealing with the medical system again)

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#249

Post by fsckboy »

RichardLake wrote: post #187
RHSeeger wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In other words, assume you are the second owner in all cases when it comes to certified medical equipment. By that logic, _any_ company can effectively ignore the GPL constraints by just selling it to a reseller, first; one that they have a contract with to _not_ offer the source code when they re-sell it. It is my understanding that, if I use GPL in my code, and I distribute it to someone that then re-distributes…

Would you disagree with this logic? You distribute GPL code to me on a dvd. I give that dvd to someone else. I have not made a copy of the source code, so copyright does not come into this. If instead I copied the dvd and emailed the iso to someone else I would be distributing and copyright comes into it.

the license travels with the copy, it is what allows the copy.

if the license does not travel with the copy, then the copy is unlicensed and is a copyright violation. the license carries restrictions and grants rights. those aspects cannot be violated or the license ceases to exist.

you don't know what you are talking about, so stop guessing.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#250

Post by fsckboy »

abigail95 wrote: post #49
teddyh wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand it, Richard Stallman has gotten his view about linking from FSF’s lawyers, who has advised the FSF about what does and does not count as a “derived work”, in the sense of US copyright law. If you want to argue that the FSF’s lawyers are wrong, please provide more detailed, and hopefully referenced, arguments (as opposed to plain assertions).

FSF has opinions but not case law - anyone else's opinion is as valid, there's no citation because no court has ruled that dynamic linking is or isn't a derivative work. You have to construct your own view based on existing statute and vaguely related cases. Google LLC v. Oracle America, Inc., 593 U.S. 1 (2021) is not a pro-FSF opinion. Whether linking (dynamic or not) is a derivative work is defined by things like i…

>Google LLC v. Oracle America, Inc., 593 U.S. 1 (2021)

does not apply to the linking of GPLed code. Google copied just the application programming interfaces and then supplied their own code that they wrote themselves.

if you link to a GPL library you are including their copyrighted code, even if the API that GNU uses did not originate with them but came from POSIX or similar.

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