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Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

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Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, I mostly gave that disclaimer to say that it actually doesn't matter much. Even if it's worse, that's still better, because it's over there. But yes, generally, I assume virtually every developed country (and some of the kind of developed countries) have a more just and competent legal system than the US. The US is an interesting beast, because when you compare it to the entire world on a bunch of stuff, it do…

Not being an expert in every single country's legal system, I would guess that the USA's is about middle of the spectrum in terms of badness/fairness/justice.

These things are hard to weigh objectively. For instance, in America the police don't take bribes, you can't bribe your way out of a traffic ticket. The cops will laugh at your attempt and pile on more charges. But if you're a local business owner, the bribes to local politicians are far from unheard of and all manner of corrupt dealings between business and local government is prevalent. So how you rank America's corruption depends on how you weigh those two forms of corruption. There's not one single objectively correct way to do that.

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#242

For more context here Flock Safety is a YC-backed company [1][2] [1] https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/flock-safety [2] https://x.com/garrytan/status/1856016868580151615

I wonder if that's why this post, with more upvotes than a number of the other ones on the front page, has seemingly vanished from it.

The number of comments is way higher than the number of upvotes, which usually gets submissions heavily downranked.

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the attitude and marketing. Maybe not "flagrant" but "ambitious," "aggressive," and "expansive." I don't know the name of any other public surveillance/camera company, but I've heard about Flock, and the same is probably true of any of my neighbors who are even the least bit tech-following. They are also ambitiously funded for growth and expansion and their outward press attitude is congruent. Other camera compa…

If Flock vanished off the Earth tomorrow I think we'd see exactly the same ALPR penetration. Municipalities aren't buying these things because Flock's so good at selling them; they're buying because the ALPR vendors have an extremely compelling pitch! Two of our neighboring municipalities have non-Flock ALPRs; I think you're going to see a lot of non-Flock ALPR penetration in progressive-leaning suburbs, for instance…

I think everyone in this thread can agree that surveillance cameras should be fought against, no matter whose brand is stamped on them. Flock is still a better than average target because of the attitude they project and because of name recognition.

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Flock vanished off the Earth tomorrow I think we'd see exactly the same ALPR penetration. Municipalities aren't buying these things because Flock's so good at selling them; they're buying because the ALPR vendors have an extremely compelling pitch! Two of our neighboring municipalities have non-Flock ALPRs; I think you're going to see a lot of non-Flock ALPR penetration in progressive-leaning suburbs, for instance…

I think everyone in this thread can agree that surveillance cameras should be fought against, no matter whose brand is stamped on them. Flock is still a better than average target because of the attitude they project and because of name recognition.

Wait, I don't agree with that. Why do you assume everyone in this thread agrees with that?

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you see the other post about this where the guys showed a Flock camera pointed at a playground, so any pedo can see when kids are there and not attended? Or how it has become increasingly trivial to identify by face or license plate such that combining tools reaches "movie Interpol" levels, without any warrant or security credentials? If Big Brother surveillance is unavoidable I don't think "everyone has access"…

> so any pedo can see when kids are there and not attended? Sure. It also lets parents watch. Or others see when parents are repeatedly leaving their kids unattended. Or lets you see some person that keeps showing up unattended and watching the kids. > Or how it has become increasingly trivial to identify by face or license plate such that combining tools reaches "movie Interpol" levels, without any warrant or securi…

"Or others see when parents are repeatedly leaving their kids unattended."

... which is the expected, default use-case for a playground ...

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think everyone in this thread can agree that surveillance cameras should be fought against, no matter whose brand is stamped on them. Flock is still a better than average target because of the attitude they project and because of name recognition.

Wait, I don't agree with that. Why do you assume everyone in this thread agrees with that?

Sorry, I assumed you did, given the advocacy you mentioned you led.

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're thinking Chinese surveillance the big irony, of course, is that i'm much more comfortable with China surveilling me than the US, since the latter can throw me in jail, seize my assets, and ruin my family's life, while the former cannot.

The US government is a democracy and can be replaced should it exceed people’s limits. The CCP… uh, not so much. I’m not trying to say the US government is faultless but it amazes me how often I see this kind of anti-democratic institition sentiment.

> The US government is a democracy and can be replaced should it exceed people’s limits

In theory, yes, but why do you think that it would be possible to forcefully replace in practice?

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#248

For more context here Flock Safety is a YC-backed company [1][2] [1] https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/flock-safety [2] https://x.com/garrytan/status/1856016868580151615

And let me share this reply by Garry Tan, CEO of YC, after someone made a comment that Flock might be _pretty dystopian_ [1][2]: > You're thinking Chinese surveillance > US-based surveillance helps victims and prevents more victims [1] https://x.com/neurajordan/status/1963303084609966288 [2] https://x.com/garrytan/status/1963310592615485955

[flagged]

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#249
post #33

I would love to watch a shorter version of this video that just discussed the deltas between the status quo and Flock, rather than breathlessly reporting the implications of cameras as if they were distinctive to Flock. He'll spend 30 seconds talking about how you can see every activity and every person on the camera --- yeah, that's how cameras work. There are thousands of public IP cameras on the Internet, aimed at…

Have you ever gone fishing? Did you catch all the fish?

Often it is more impactful to address one major/tangible player in a particular space than it would be to "boil the ocean" and ensure that we are capturing every possible player/transgressor. I agree that some of the video was overly breathless, but if that's what wakes people up to the dangers of unsecured cameras/devices then so be it.

Re: Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves

#250
There's an interesting idea here that is tangentially related to "common carrier" regulations ...

Specifically:

If a flock (or similar) camera is deployed on public land/infra there should exist default permission for any alternate vendor to deploy a camera in the same location.

I wonder how that could be used and/or abused and, further, what the response from a company like flock would be ...

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