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Amazon will allow ePub and PDF downloads for DRM-free eBooks

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Re: Amazon will allow ePub and PDF downloads for DRM-free eBooks

#241

Post by d3Xt3r »

mystraline wrote: post #193
exe34 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never bought any ebooks off Amazon without removing the drm at the time. I did buy a lot of shows and movies, but if they take those away, I'll just pirate them, given I've already paid.

Buying drm'ed shit, and removing later only indicates that DRM is acceptable. Pirate it to start, and dont pay. You're an 'illegal' either way, with a tort copyright violation OR a criminal DMCA violation.

Unfortunately not everything is available on the high seas. For instance, it's impossible to find older seasons of MasterChef Australia (in HD). Heck even trying to view it legally, outside of AU, is a mission - Amazon is the only entity that has the older seasons. I ended up subscribing to a Prime account just for this.

Re: Amazon will allow ePub and PDF downloads for DRM-free eBooks

#242

Post by kstrauser »

BeetleB wrote: post #238
kstrauser wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it hasn't. Until very recently, their website said "Buy now with 1-Click", minus the new "By placing an order, you're purchasing a content license & agreeing to Kindle's Store Terms of Use." wording underneath it. The process was identical to buying a physical book: you give them money, and you end up with your own physical or electronic copy of it. Any interpretation of that transaction as anything but a purchas…

> No, it hasn't. Yes, it has. They made it clear right when they launched the store. > I couldn't care less what their ToS said about it You're welcome to not care about whatever you feel - your concerns and reality are orthogonal. This became big news a long time ago: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2009/jul/17/amazon-ki...

> Yes, it has. They made it clear right when they launched the store.

No one except those who explicitly went looking for this knew it. It wasn't made clear in any way.

> This became big news a long time ago:

Speaking of orthogonal. I remember this well. It was a case where Amazon stole back books people had purchased. The core concern at the time wasn't that Amazon had revoked a license to read a book, but that they had deleted purchased books from users' collections.

But at the end of the day, for many years Amazon had an action button saying "Buy now with 1-Click" with no legal fiction disclaimer. The button was identical to what you'd see when buying a bag of cat food, DVD, or anything else you'd flat-out purchase from them.

Re: Amazon will allow ePub and PDF downloads for DRM-free eBooks

#243

Post by asplake »

criddell wrote: post #174
asplake wrote: post #47

As the author of five books (and my most recent one entirely self-published), I haven't yet worked out how I feel about this or how to respond. My current compromise is to charge more on the DRM-free LeanPub.

How do you evaluate if the DRM is working as intended?

Sales on Amazon are working as intended. DRM there is not a variable I can control.

Re: Amazon will allow ePub and PDF downloads for DRM-free eBooks

#244

Post by [deleted] »

kstrauser wrote: post #224
BeetleB wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But after they decided the ebooks were actually just license to read They decided that when they launched the Kindle. It's always been that way.

No, it hasn't. Until very recently, their website said "Buy now with 1-Click", minus the new "By placing an order, you're purchasing a content license & agreeing to Kindle's Store Terms of Use." wording underneath it. The process was identical to buying a physical book: you give them money, and you end up with your own physical or electronic copy of it. Any interpretation of that transaction as anything but a purchas…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon will allow ePub and PDF downloads for DRM-free eBooks

#245

Post by BeetleB »

kstrauser wrote: post #242
BeetleB wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it hasn't. Yes, it has. They made it clear right when they launched the store. > I couldn't care less what their ToS said about it You're welcome to not care about whatever you feel - your concerns and reality are orthogonal. This became big news a long time ago: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2009/jul/17/amazon-ki...

> Yes, it has. They made it clear right when they launched the store. No one except those who explicitly went looking for this knew it. It wasn't made clear in any way. > This became big news a long time ago: Speaking of orthogonal. I remember this well. It was a case where Amazon stole back books people had purchased. The core concern at the time wasn't that Amazon had revoked a license to read a book, but that they…

I'm neither disputing the verbiage on the button, nor the ignorance of users. None of those affects the fact that you did not own the ebook - it was licensed to you.

What is silly is actually knowing the whole 1984 episode, and still believing you owned the books.

Re: Amazon will allow ePub and PDF downloads for DRM-free eBooks

#246

Post by _heimdall »

makeitdouble wrote: post #99
_heimdall wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems reasonable enough to me though. It should be the publisher's choice what formats of the book they are willing to sell.

Having the action prominent and potentially with the default reversed would still leave it to the publisher's choice. We can understand why they do it this way (they only need the option to exist, and can afford to apply dark patterns to it), but we don't need to excuse Amazon. Especially when they don't give a shit about what we think in the first place.

Oh I wouldn't expect Amazon to care what I think, especially with regards to digital books as at least I am not a customer.

I'm also not going to write off everything they do as evil only because of who they are though. Defaulting to disabled vs enabled would be reasonable too, though I don't know enough publishers or independent authors to know which option would be more often selected to pick a default.

Re: Amazon will allow ePub and PDF downloads for DRM-free eBooks

#247

Post by smeej »

BeetleB wrote: post #238
kstrauser wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it hasn't. Until very recently, their website said "Buy now with 1-Click", minus the new "By placing an order, you're purchasing a content license & agreeing to Kindle's Store Terms of Use." wording underneath it. The process was identical to buying a physical book: you give them money, and you end up with your own physical or electronic copy of it. Any interpretation of that transaction as anything but a purchas…

> No, it hasn't. Yes, it has. They made it clear right when they launched the store. > I couldn't care less what their ToS said about it You're welcome to not care about whatever you feel - your concerns and reality are orthogonal. This became big news a long time ago: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2009/jul/17/amazon-ki...

The linked article is about Amazon's having realized they had no right to sell the books they thought they had sold and reversing the transaction, not revoking a license to something they thought they had licensed to you.

You seem to be missing the importance of that nuance.

Re: Amazon will allow ePub and PDF downloads for DRM-free eBooks

#249

Post by array_key_first »

thegrim000 wrote: post #208
al_borland wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning long-time customers in otherwise good-standing for a mistake they made years ago, which would already be settled financially and such a minor cost is wild. I can imagine something like this has happened to almost everyone. So much for being the world’s most customer-centric company. That mission is dead.

99.99% of the time when you read something on the internet and your reaction is "that's wild" / "wow that's crazy" / "that's unbelievable", then what you are reading is in fact likely nowhere near the actual truth / real.

My experience with online services and software in general is it makes mistakes A LOT. Like A LOT A LOT. And I have absolutely no problem believing there little to no humans in the loop here.

Re: Amazon will allow ePub and PDF downloads for DRM-free eBooks

#250

Post by smeej »

BeetleB wrote: post #245
kstrauser wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, it has. They made it clear right when they launched the store. No one except those who explicitly went looking for this knew it. It wasn't made clear in any way. > This became big news a long time ago: Speaking of orthogonal. I remember this well. It was a case where Amazon stole back books people had purchased. The core concern at the time wasn't that Amazon had revoked a license to read a book, but that they…

I'm neither disputing the verbiage on the button, nor the ignorance of users. None of those affects the fact that you did not own the ebook - it was licensed to you. What is silly is actually knowing the whole 1984 episode, and still believing you owned the books.

> "These books were added to our catalog using our self-service platform by a third-party who did not have the rights to the books," spokesman Drew Herdener told the Guardian. "When we were notified of this by the rights holder, we removed the illegal copies from our systems and from customers' devices, and refunded customers."

> Amazon refunded the cost of the books, but told affected customers they could no longer read the books and that the titles were "no longer available for purchase".

This has nothing to do with people's having bought a license to the books. It's about Amazon's never having had authorization from the publisher to sell the books. There is no reference at all to people's having licensed the books from Amazon. Amazon referred to people as having bought the books.

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