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DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#241

Post by coliveira »

echelon wrote: post #176
hearsathought wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. "Moral imperative"? No country was ever created out of a moral imperative. None. Also, no country was ever created to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. Every country was created by the elites for the benefits of the elites.

> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is…

You mean, the fiction is there. They did use a lot of nice words, but the reality is a bunch of slave owners creating a society controlled by oligarchs.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#242

Post by coliveira »

nostrademons wrote: post #119

I thought this was common knowledge. DeepSeek’s Wikipedia entry says that they trained all their models on Nvidia chips procured before the U.S. embargo to China on them. It wouldn’t surprise me if they continued acquiring them through, well, less than legal means. I also read somewhere (not Wikipedia) that they trained on ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini queries, basically feeding in the output of competitor’s LLMs as tr…

They don't need to break any laws for this. Where do you think are the customers for data centers in the Middle East? Chinese companies do everything legally, paying for access to data centers that got the chips directly from the US.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#243

Post by sofixa »

epolanski wrote: post #215
ebbi wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same government that runs Guantanamo prison, known for it's illegal torture practices and imprisoning people with no charges? Can't be!

Fun fact, when US prisoner of wars were water boarded by the Japanese, these got death sentences. When a US soldier was photographed in Vietnam waterboarding a vietnamese PoW he got 22 years of prison. Then came 2002 and rule of law stopped applying.

> When a US soldier was photographed in Vietnam waterboarding a vietnamese PoW he got 22 years of prison.

Really? Did he serve more than a month? Because if the people who committed My Lai for off with slaps on the wrist, I can't imagine something as trivial as waterboarding would get any serious consequences.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#244

Post by tmnvix »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #231
ComputerGuru wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s bandits all the way down, so adding a little smuggling to that doesn’t surprise me. Implying it’s *morally* wrong for a Chinese company to bypass US sanctions is hilarious. You really say that with a straight face when even the president admits this is only protectionism?

Smuggling or buying from a smuggler is on the "banditry" side whether you think it's moral or not.

Hypothetical: I buy a product imported legally from the US and later sell it on the local used market to a Chinese tourist who takes it back to China with them. Where is the crime, smuggling, or 'banditry' here? US law is just that - US law.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#245

Post by godsinhisheaven »

hearsathought wrote: post #186
echelon wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is…

> The intent is there. The declaration of independence was written by one of the wealthiest slave owners in the country. "Moral imperative" was certainly not behind the american revolution. The economic interests of the elites were. There are no saints in politics. Just interests - mostly of the elites.

This is an extremely reductive take. Thomas Jefferson was a hero and a scholar! Think about the times he lived in, everyone lived under some sort of aristocratic monarchy, that was the norm. Certainly there were some economic interests at play in tge Revolution, but is it economically smart to declare independence from the most powerful empire of the day? Indeed, many of the "elites" at the time sided with the British! There had to be something more than just "class interests" at play to convince these wealthy elites to renounce their fealty to their government, giving up all legal claims to their property and indeed their very lives, should the revolutionaries have lost.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#246

Post by halJordan »

LogicFailsMe wrote: post #225
htrp wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone trains on queries from other models, it's called distillation

Well, given AI content cannot be copyrighted, haters can hate hate hate hate hate...

That's a little disingenuous. If i buy a printer and use the ink in the cartridge to reverse engineer a beautiful red, have i stolen something from the printer manufacturer? Especially if they lose business because they no longer have what distinguished them?

Clean room design is not new (or illegal), but it's always been a form of stealing

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#247

Post by epolanski »

sofixa wrote: post #243
epolanski wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact, when US prisoner of wars were water boarded by the Japanese, these got death sentences. When a US soldier was photographed in Vietnam waterboarding a vietnamese PoW he got 22 years of prison. Then came 2002 and rule of law stopped applying.

> When a US soldier was photographed in Vietnam waterboarding a vietnamese PoW he got 22 years of prison. Really? Did he serve more than a month? Because if the people who committed My Lai for off with slaps on the wrist, I can't imagine something as trivial as waterboarding would get any serious consequences.

I am referring to this is the picture [1] which was printed on the post in 1968.

I am not able to find more information about the court martialed soldier, but the fact that he was sentenced to 22 years of prison is a quote from a lecture of professor Sarah Paine from the US Navy War Academy.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Waterboarding_a_captured_...

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#248

Post by pedroma »

jyscao wrote: post #172
qoez wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Projection. China does not even try to export their ideologies to the rest of the world who they see as clearly different culturally. The “west” OTOH does not have a good track record of that.

It's interesting how this sounds like projection to me as well, from the perspective that China does export their ideology. Your post itself seems to be a form of that, whether you're Chinese or not.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#249

Post by pyuser583 »

echelon wrote: post #157
ComputerGuru wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s bandits all the way down, so adding a little smuggling to that doesn’t surprise me. Implying it’s *morally* wrong for a Chinese company to bypass US sanctions is hilarious. You really say that with a straight face when even the president admits this is only protectionism?

It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. The CIA (and every other intelligence org.) is literally a weapon designed to operate in the grey area to fit the mandate of the policy makers and elected leadership. Many of the things they do are questionable or worse. In the case of the DoD, they do these things at the behest of democratically elected leadership. Of course…

> The CIA (and every other intelligence org.) is literally a weapon designed to operate in the grey area to fit the mandate of the policy makers and elected leadership

There is some truth, but this is how you get a crappy-ass intelligence agency.

Good intelligence agencies are focused on gathering intelligence, not performing random tasks that benefit from secrecy.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#250

Post by cladopa »

echelon wrote: post #176
hearsathought wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. "Moral imperative"? No country was ever created out of a moral imperative. None. Also, no country was ever created to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. Every country was created by the elites for the benefits of the elites.

> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is…

I don't want to fight against decades of State propaganda and indoctrination, but do you realise that by "men" they were not referring to black slaves or Mexicans in Texas or California or native Americans(the best Indian in the dead Indian).
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