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Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

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Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#241

Post by NicoJuicy »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #194
bitdivision wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some context: https://archive.ph/Apfdv Autostore ended up paying Ocado? How did Ocado abuse them?

Because autostore shared trade secrets with Ocado. The lawsuit was found to be not valid. Note: Ocado was a customer of Autostore in 2012 and just copied them. Sharing IP basically invalidated the lawsuit.

https://www.blackstonechambers.com/news/autostore-technology...

Autostore disclosed their design externally before the patents. So the patents were "invalidated" by themselves

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#242

Post by ben_w »

graemep wrote: post #235
ben_w wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of those shows several cars in the photo and a single bike. Yes, and? "Cars are popular" is not a surprising claim that anyone has been contradicting, so far as I can see. (Also, Aberystwyth is tiny enough to get around entirely on foot, and hilly enough that bikers have to be exceptionally fit, and yet despite this, bike racks). > The other two show pedestrianised areas, and all three show pedestrians without…

The claim was made further up the thread that "I don't know a single person who orders groceries online. Smallish shops with bike racks in front of the door are simply too convenient, seems hard to beat" and I interpreted your photos as supporting that claim. My point is that it is not "shops with bike racks" that are the alternative to online groceries, it is a mix that definitely involves more use of cars than bike…

Ah, got it. I missed that interpretation of the surrounding context, that's fair. Looking back at the comment you mention, I see how it could be interpreted as either "e.g." or "exclusively" bikes.

To your point, I agree, it's definitely not just bikes: I could bike to my local stores, I actually walk most of the time. With the "e.g."/"exclusive" split: Back when I was commuting, I did so by bus and train, and would also often go via a shop on the way home. The Briesen example is close to the train station, so my guess is that many of the locals would do likewise.

I'd go further though, we do order online about once every 6-8 weeks, because bulk purchasing 18 litres of soy milk and another 9 of long-life cow milk that way is more convenient than frequent small purchases at the same time as the perishables.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#243

Post by wing-_-nuts »

chickory3 wrote: post #166
simgt wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you operating? I live in a dense European city and I don't know a single person who orders groceries online. Smallish shops with bike racks in front of the door are simply too convenient, seems hard to beat. Next few days shopping can easily be done in 15mn on the way back home.

> I live in a dense European city and I don't know a single person who orders groceries online. I live in the U.S. and have almost never used a service like Instacart. Also, when I see the item I’m trying to order in Amazon is fulfilled by Whole Foods, I typically don’t buy it, because of the additional cost. I’d rather suffer a small amount of inconvenience to save several dollars on groceries, and often it may mean…

I don't get anything delivered, but I almost exclusively use grocery pick up since so many stores near me went all or mostly self checkout.

Self checkout is fine for small trips, but expecting people to do so for a cart full of groceries is ridiculous. This trend started at walmart but has started moving up the chain to higher priced stores. I just flatly refuse to do the grocer's work for them when I'm not actually saving any money at checkout for doing so.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#244

Post by zamadatix »

lazide wrote: post #236
crazygringo wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find online grocery shopping shines for heavy and bulky things that are a huge pain to schlep home otherwise, especially stuff that lasts a while. All juices/waters/beers/wines, paper towels, lots of oranges/grapefruits, cleaning products like bleach/detergent, etc. When they carry them up to your fourth-floor door it's just so much easier. The smallish shops are good for stuff you can then easily carry in a bag by…

If you are getting those things anyway, and only need small portions of the other, then why bother?

With the exception of "lots of oranges/grapefruits", you only need to get the things in the first list perhaps every 1-3 months + you generally don't have to worry about them selecting a bad box of paper towels or stale cleaning products vs every time something in that second list is "why did they even bother trying to deliver this to me" quality.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#245

Post by VLM »

kakacik wrote: post #124
NegativeLatency wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An example of my experiences: you’ll get the apple with the bruise and maybe some damage instead of the nice one you’d pick out if you’re shopping for yourself.

A counter-example - with a weekly shopping list way too long (family of 4), its hard for the husband to pick up all items as fresh as possible and do all necessary checks on each of them. Or in other words - even people themselves do make same mistake, I certainly do.

People will forgive themselves for saving money, but will not forgive others at the delivery service for charging extra.

There is no delivery service that's cheaper and good enough, or dirt cheap and expected to be awful, but those are large profitable retail operations. The only sector offered is more expensive, which annoys people if they occasionally get a below average item while also paying a lot more.

Delivery is for people who buy tenderloin not ground chuck and they get MAD when their tenderloin isn't perfect.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#246

Post by marcosdumay »

j_w wrote: post #224
iambateman wrote: post #216

I’m regularly surprised by how important physically picking out groceries is for a large segment of the population. We have done grocery pickup for years but the pickup lanes are almost always empty while dozens of shoppers walk into the store. To me, shopping for groceries by hand is a waste of time but it clearly has some utility for a lot of people. I wonder if that inertia is making traditional grocery shopping s…

I like to browse what is there and make decisions on what I'll be eating based on what I see. Purchasing online feels more narrow and has me thinking more about things I've cooked before vs what I might want to try cooking/eating.

Yes, it's not only pickup.

Online retailers UIs are all extremely bad for browsing. One would imagine they would be better, because they can reorganize any way they want, without any limitation, personalize it to each customer, and have several different organizations at the same time available for people to pick what's best each time.

But no, browsing universally sucks.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#247

Post by taeric »

bena wrote: post #229
taeric wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I just meant that you have a high chance of seeing the bread and drinks/chips getting delivered. They turn over pretty much daily. I would imagine it is the condiments and other very long shelf stable things that you may not see getting restocked on a daily basis?

Oh, that's not really related to turnover. Bread/snack cakes (Little Debbie, the bakery also does bread), chips, soda, and liquor/beer are typically handled by vendors. Coca-Cola has a guy come out and stock the Coca-Cola products. Frito-Lay has a guy handle the Frito-Lay products. Etc. They don't work for the store in any capacity. Vendors typically come during the normal operating hours of the store. Bread guys lik…

To rephrase what I think you are saying, I'm more likely to notice these trucks because they will be specifically branded by the vendors? That makes sense.

I assumed it was that and that they are there basically every day. Always notable on the days when a snow storm is announced and bread will be completely wiped out. Only to be fully stocked the next day.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#248

Post by wing-_-nuts »

imtringued wrote: post #210
squeedles wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that HD (and Lowes) massively subsidizes their delivery ops simply because they don't want to cede the space to Amazon. It allows them to under-stock the stores but still maintain a reasonable range of products. However each time I have ordered, they have delivered a ~$2 part via Fedex, at no extra cost to me. They are a bigger fish than the mom and pop stores but that just means that it will take a little…

Reading these two comments is bizarre from my perspective. How is Amazon competitive with anything? They tend to have higher prices than other online retailers and the intransparent market place system tries to protect shady sellers with product focused reviews instead of seller based reviews. The moment you get even a single fake product or wrong delivery all the perceived savings evaporate at once. The idea of payi…

I don't order from amazon enough to justify prime, but a few times a year I sign up for a free subscription for a couple weeks or so.

The prices on amazon are comparable to what I see elsewhere for everything I've ordered. The thing that sets amazon apart is that their delivery is blazing fast compared to everyone else. Yes, the reviews are always a little suspect, if I see tons of empty 5 star reviews, I suspect the product, but in general, I've been satisfied with my purchases.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#249

Post by PeterStuer »

karamanolev wrote: post #123

I work in this exact space (online grocery retailer in Europe). We're profitable and one of the few companies to be so in the sector - many online divisions are losing money and being bankrolled by the parent company with physical stores. Alternatively, burning VC money. The thing that's wrong with Ocado's technology is that it's ridiculously expensive and tailored for huge FC's (fulfillment centers). The problem wit…

I've done a few projects in (traditional, not pure ecommerce) retail, and in my experience it is a very low margin business.

This contrasts sharply with being an innovator in the robotics space, which typically is extremely capital intensive with very long ROI trajectories.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#250

Post by Forgeties79 »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #240
Forgeties79 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We use Costco delivery at my house because it’s 10-15min each way to go there plus an hour at the place shopping at best (long lines are common). With 2 kids you feel that time especially given how frequently you have to shop for groceries. It’s a more limited selection but there’s plenty to choose from and I’m done picking out my groceries in five minutes. They magically show up at my door for very little extra cost…

>They magically show up at my door for very little extra cost I find tipping for grocery delivery adds pretty significantly to the cost.

I save money because I have Costco executive membership which also gives me Instacart for cheap, so I put those savings into the tip. Nets out about the same plus several hours of my life aren’t spent at Costco every month.
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