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A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

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Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#241

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

cyberax wrote: post #133
jaggederest wrote: post #3

It's a very interesting drug. There are a lot of concerns right now around PFAS in water supplies, for example, and Miebo/Evotears are pure PFAS (perfluorohexyloctane) that's instilled directly in the eye, giving you a dose somewhere around a million times higher than levels of concern in drinking water. But it is absolutely revolutionary if you have dry eyes. Quotes include "I feel like my eye is actually too wet no…

It's also used to replace the intraocular fluid. In that case you'll get trillions times that. This is why the PFAS scare is quite a bit silly. "PFAS" is such a broad category that it's ridiculous.

Surely the sheer number and amount of different PFAs being distributed around the planet without knowing about long term effects is the ridiculous bit. The argument that because we dump a lot of it must mean that it's safe is just wishful thinking. Remember when lead was added to fuel and large amounts of lead were then pumped into the air? It had very noticeable effects on criminality in people.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#242

Post by OutOfHere »

autoexec wrote: post #223
OutOfHere wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be too sure or cocky because it does have a very broad mechanism of action that does cast a wide net. Humility is warranted.

I'd happily be proved wrong, but all the usual red flags are there. About the best that can be said for it at the moment is that there doesn't seem any more evidence that it's harmful than there is for it being helpful. Hopefully it gets the research to back up the claims. It certainly purports to be effective for conditions there's plenty of interest in developing effective and safe treatments for so you'd think tha…

The West and the globe doesn't work that way. There is little to no money in something that can't be patented. For this reason, at least no pharma firm will pay for any trials with it, and so it can't easily ever get FDA approved. Naivete does not help.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#243

Post by OutOfHere »

cyberax wrote: post #213
OutOfHere wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole PFAS scare is overblown. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about. If you actually think the scare is overblown, I dare you to drink the whole bottle of that eyedrop.

> You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about. I do. 1. "PFAS" is a technically incorrect term. 2. It's ridiculously broad. Teflon is PFAS, sevoflurane is PFAS, and so on. > If you actually think the scare is overblown, I dare you to drink the whole bottle of that eyedrop. They literally use the same liquid to FILL THE EYEBALLS after retinal surgery. It's been approved for 25 years. A bottle of eyedrops…

The only relevant subdivision of PFAS is by chain length: small, medium, large. Even so, they all accumulate in the environment. Just because you with your short term selfish interest doesn't take any responsibility for the world at large, willing to totally destroy it for small personal gain, does not mean that others don't either. All PFAS are very harmful in the environment because it's like paperclips that keep being made but not ever being unmade. Medium and long chain are also harmful in the human body due to significant accumulation.

Teflon does not get a free pass. It is a toxin. The last I recall, it causes brain damage in children. There is a reason why sane people avoid nonstick cookware.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#244

Post by OutOfHere »

cyberax wrote: post #214
OutOfHere wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PFHO Here we go again with the PFAS. It is the stuff to prefer the least, not the most. > I'm getting D3 and A from multivitamins That fails completely because they almost always don't have softgel oil-dissolve forms or the right dose at all. They're generally very far from it. It is exactly what leads to the autoimmune issue of dry eyes in the first place.

Yeah, yeah. Sure. > That fails completely because they almost always don't have softgel oil-dissolve forms or the right dose at all I tried tons of forms. My current ones are gel-filled capsules. Rather large ones, at that. Sorry, but there's a huge amount of scholarly literature on this question. I've read tons of it over the years, and there is NO magical supplement that does anything but mildly improve the situati…

Forms alone won't accomplish anything if the dose isn't correct. With regard to vitamin A, some people confuse it with beta carotene, with the latter not working so well for this effect. Vitamin A even has evidence backing it as per PMC6462169. It does take a few weeks to begin to work. Even mild improvements stack up. It may not eliminate the need for an additional intervention, but it can mean the difference between whether the additional intervention will work or fail.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#245

Post by trollbridge »

yunwal wrote: post #178
trollbridge wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medicaid is available in all 50 states.

It is not available to all poor people in all states https://www.cbpp.org/research/health/the-medicaid-coverage-g...

All the non-expansion states make it available too; just at a lower income threshold or other requirements.

Making a statement that most poor people in America can’t get epi-pens is false. Most poor people can for free.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#246

Post by yunwal »

trollbridge wrote: post #245
yunwal wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not available to all poor people in all states https://www.cbpp.org/research/health/the-medicaid-coverage-g...

All the non-expansion states make it available too; just at a lower income threshold or other requirements. Making a statement that most poor people in America can’t get epi-pens is false. Most poor people can for free.

> Making a statement that most poor people in America can’t get epi-pens is false. Most poor people can for free.

There are 26 million uninsured in the US and deductibles also exist for everyone so this is just blatantly false

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#247

Post by daveguy »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #233
monerozcash wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure Kaiser Permanente is not-for-profit, many Blue Cross Blue Shield members are non-profit

Most (and the biggest) BCBS licensees are for-profit. Kaiser is not but is still eye wateringly expensive. For me, a silver plan will be about $700-800 next year. And then you take a look at what a bronze plan covers…

This is correct. BCBS is for profit and most others are. Kaiser Foundation Health Plan is one of the few not for profit insurances and only available in 8 states.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#248

Post by daveguy »

petesergeant wrote: post #171
daveguy wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because health insurance companies need to pad their profits. Because we have a backward system in the US where profits are extracted by everyone without any competition from a not-for-profit. That's why the idea of a public option is so popular (it was originally a Republican idea until it was decided insurance company profits are more desirable). Personally, I don't think any health insurance company should be…

> Because we have a backward system in the US where profits are extracted by everyone without any competition from a not-for-profit. California has an excellent non-profit option, and it depresses prices a bit, but not a huge amount

Yeah, some individual states do have not for profit, and it does help. These are the vast minority of states. That's why it should be available nationwide as a public option.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#249

Post by immibis »

xnorswap wrote: post #39
Insanity wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that might be worse than just having the high price. Such a kafka-esque systems just to get medicine.

The best thing about universal healthcare isn't how much money I may or may not have to pay, it's that I literally don't once have to think about a bill or filling out a form to avoid paying too much. I wouldn't care if I ended up paying more in tax than I would in an insurance model. The benefit is being able to 100% focus on my health instead of navigating a system to try to reduce what I'm paying. When you're diag…

Not limited to healthcare btw. This is also how I feel about my public transport card, unlimited data on my cellphone plan, and so on.

I'll take a queue over bankruptcy any day. And these queues people complain about are triaged - if you're dying you skip to the front. The complaints about waiting hours are from people with broken arms, and at least they get seen and their arms get fixed, for free or a nominal price.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#250

Post by testing22321 »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #78
xnorswap wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best thing about universal healthcare isn't how much money I may or may not have to pay, it's that I literally don't once have to think about a bill or filling out a form to avoid paying too much. I wouldn't care if I ended up paying more in tax than I would in an insurance model. The benefit is being able to 100% focus on my health instead of navigating a system to try to reduce what I'm paying. When you're diag…

Trust me it doesn’t work perfectly in other countries. Yes, americas system is messed up but in countries like Sweden you will still have to navigate the system to actually get the healthcare you need. There are people who are denied healthcare in Sweden because the govt has deemed that it’s too expensive to save them (while people with similar conditions and a good insurance in the US are covered).

My mum was diagnosed with stage four lung cancer. Almost three years of radiation, chemotherapy, trail drugs, appointments etc. free transport and accommodation at the major city four hours away when required. Insane prescription drugs that seriously raised the eyebrows of the pharmacist every month.

Never paid a cent, never had a single call or piece of paper for logistics or payment or any of that bs.

She was a teacher her whole life, middle class, no private insurance ever.

It can be, and is, phenomenal in countries that do it right.

Aim higher.

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