Live data from Hacker News

Arthur Conan Doyle explored men’s mental health through Sherlock Holmes

theconversation.com

241–250 of 304 posts

Re: Arthur Conan Doyle explored men’s mental health through Sherlock Holmes

#241

One reason I like CBS’s Elementary’s depiction of Sherlock (maybe more so than BBC’s Sherlock) is because how Elementary treats Sherlock’s mental health and addiction recovery as central to the character. As great as Sherlock is at solving cases, he still struggles greatly to handle his own mental health and addiction recovery, which makes him more grounded to earth.

I think Elementarys Sherlock is closer to the book version. In the BBC version he is totally aloof of social connections and norms, but in the books it is pretty clear, that Sherlock is able to tranverse London society - he had many case with high society people before Watson was part of his life - he just dislikes it.

If you're looking for a portrayal closer to the books, I'd highly recommend Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes produced by Granada TV from the 80s.

I don't think any actor has come as close as Jeremy Brett did.

Re: Arthur Conan Doyle explored men’s mental health through Sherlock Holmes

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but it's 12:10 PM, and I am in my third meeting, pretending to pay attention. I wish the job market improved.

Have you tried tobacco, indoor firearms and cocaine? Oh … never mind. I have always worked remote and been hermitting recently on a difficult set of (work) challenges. I don’t know what I would do without HN. I read a lot of science, math and tech news, but am only aware of one place where the discourse around topics that interest me has the quality of HN, which is HN.

> Have you tried tobacco, indoor firearms and cocaine?

I don't do alcohol, drugs, et cetera, because I saw other people who did, and found them disgusting. I don't want to be like that. Though if I could easily get my hands on a weapon, I would have probably shot myself already.

> I read a lot of science, math and tech news, but am only aware of one place where the discourse around topics that interest me has the quality of HN, which is HN.

There is also lobste.rs

Re: Arthur Conan Doyle explored men’s mental health through Sherlock Holmes

#243
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most miserable people I've known were rich people's children. Depression is more about the lack of hope than money.

When you're poor in a capitalist society, money is hope.

Exactly. You can hope for money. But if you have money and no hope, you're fucked.

Re: Arthur Conan Doyle explored men’s mental health through Sherlock Holmes

#244

> One of those taboo subjects was male vulnerability and mental health problems. (emphasis is mine) I would argue that still in 2025 this is an extreme and institutionalized taboo.

That's right. I built and released a game called Autism Simulator recently. Online feedback was overwhelmingly positive but with plenty of gaslighting sprinkled in, e.g. "everybody's a bit autistic", "that just sounds like working in tech". Minimization is always the default go-to for men's mental health issues.

> I built and released a game called Autism Simulator recently.

Would you mind linking to the game so I can check it out?

Re: Arthur Conan Doyle explored men’s mental health through Sherlock Holmes

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a valid take. But we need to apply it evenly on the entire society. If we fill up the public discourse with the issues and wants of women and make the issues and wants of men a private matter this will skew the public understanding of the stance of women and men - we see this hardcore these days with boys and men being villainized, made invisible and made suspicious only due to their gender. From here we have…

Not the commenter, and I 'm not a fan of how normal it has become to do one's dirty laundry in public. But I find it lamentable that the most popular takeaway from the internet's mainstreaming of feminist thought is that men’s issues are necessarily in competition with women's issues for representation. It's ridiculous since women's issues are only being better represented recently while men have long dominated polit…

> It's ridiculous since women's issues are only being better represented recently while men have long dominated politics

This statement has more than one issue:

1. First and foremost, it is simply a rewrite of the history. There is a difference between descriptive and substantive representation. And it is true that men have been descriptively better represented. But the thoughtless implication that this leads to better substantive representation is simply wrong.

2. It justifies the idea of "reparations" for previous generations misdoing. Not only does this induce a high level if dissent, it is simply immoral. Even if we would accept reparations, it is still only justified by the rewrite of the history.

I appreciate the call for nuance, but I think the historical framing here deserves scrutiny.

You're right that men have dominated politicly, but it's worth distinguishing between who held power (descriptive representation) and whose interests were served (substantive representation). Most men throughout history had no political power - they were subjects of monarchies, excluded by property requirements, or conscripted into wars they didn't choose. The men making decisions were a tiny elite.

On "women's issues only recently being better represented" -this depends heavily on what we're measuring. If we look at something like life expectancy as a rough proxy for overall life quality (capturing war mortality, occupational deaths, access to resources, healthcare), historical data suggests men and women faced roughly equal burdens pre-industrialization, just distributed differently. Women faced maternal mortality and legal subordination; men faced conscription, dangerous labor, and social expendability. The female longevity advantage only emerges clearly in the modern era.

The point isn't to claim men had it worse - it's that "men have long dominated" obscures that most men were themselves dominated, and bore unique, severe costs within the same system.

I agree completely that rigid gender roles harm everyone. But framing current attention to men's issues as acceptable only because "patriarchal roles harm men too" still treats men's suffering as derivative of women's concerns, requiring feminist justification. Can't men's rising suicide rates, educational struggles, and social isolation warrant direct concern on their own terms?

The discourse does need less competition. But that requires actually taking men's issues seriously, not just when they can be reframed as collateral damage from patriarchy.

Re: Arthur Conan Doyle explored men’s mental health through Sherlock Holmes

#246
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do they mean by "vulnerability" here? There is this constant redefinition of words. In mainstream usage, "vulnerability" is not a good thing as it means you are open to problems and can easily be attacked. They presumably mean it in the sense of being "open to your own emotions" or tender. Silly misuse of words for a serious subject.

It’s not a misuse - it’s exactly the intended meaning and it is perfectly common in mainstream usage. Allowing yourself to be vulnerable means you are indeed open to attack. But it is also a large part of emotional connection. The alternative is being a fortress - with all the relationship problems that entails. The very fact that you see vulnerability as “bad” is a perfect example of what that language is intended t…

> The alternative is being a fortress - with all the relationship problems that entails.

I’m reminded of the concept of siege mentality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_mentality

> In sociology, siege mentality is a shared feeling of victimization and defensiveness—a term derived from the actual experience of military defences of real sieges. It is a collective state of mind in which a group of people believe themselves constantly attacked, oppressed, or isolated in the face of the negative intentions of the rest of the world. Although a group phenomenon, the term describes both the emotions and thoughts of the group as a whole, and as individuals. The result is a state of being overly fearful of surrounding peoples, and an intractably defensive attitude.

> Among the consequences of a siege mentality are black and white thinking, social conformity, and lack of trust, but also a preparedness for the worst and a strong sense of social cohesion.

Re: Arthur Conan Doyle explored men’s mental health through Sherlock Holmes

#247
post #187
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the line between user and addict? He was definitely not holding together his life by any traditional measure.

Tell me you haven't read the books without telling me you haven't read them!

Read them all. Multiple times.

Mind actually using words to form useful sentences?

He of course insisted he wasn’t an addict - like all addicts do - but he always went back that I remember - like all addicts do. And he used it to cope with not having any interesting problems and the misery of life.

He was enabled by Watson and his brother, and mostly supported in the elements of normal social functioning by them.

Where we draw the line between addict and not is quite subjective in these situations eh?

Re: Arthur Conan Doyle explored men’s mental health through Sherlock Holmes

#248
post #140
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Historic ‘stoic male’ personas existed for a reason. What are you talking about here. "Historic male persona" differs between periods and places, but anger, friendships and happiness are basically always parts of it. Odysseus "weeps" and "cries". The whole romantic era was about overly emotional, passionate and sensitive guys.

Notice how I never said what you are disagreeing with, and if you read what I said, your question is answered?

I had no question. You also do not know what historical stoicism as a philosophy and behavior was, but I assumed actual historical stoicism was not the point.

My point was, you made up "historic stoic persona" based on conservative ideology. Not as something that actually characterized historical manhood.

Re: Arthur Conan Doyle explored men’s mental health through Sherlock Holmes

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (especially women) It's always about that isn't it? Not getting the reaction you want, vilifying your interlocutor, then run crying with fingers in your ears screaming "lalala I didn't want it anyway" and declaring yourself a stoic is really indicative of the type of people who in the present day call themselves stoics. This whole thread is just a long-winded version of redpill discourse, people who can see past mi…

I didn't see any vilification of women. Women value sharing and emotional vulnerability. It's how they bond with other women, who make up the bulk of their friends. Men's experiences with other men, the bulk of their friends, often make them wary of being emotionally vulnerable. Hence, naturally, a disconnect when a man and a woman are establishing a relationship.

OP blamed women for supposedly complaining that men dont open up. Men simultaneously have natural friendships with other men, but it is women fault men do not open up.

Por op, women are at wrong when they want men to talk (which is outrageous ask), but also cause of men not talking. Which includes men not talking to other men, which is also fault of women.

Re: Arthur Conan Doyle explored men’s mental health through Sherlock Holmes

#250
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're poor in a capitalist society, money is hope.

Exactly. You can hope for money. But if you have money and no hope, you're fucked.

I disagree. If you have money and no hope, you still have access to opportunities that poor people don't have. Hopelessness is a choice in that case.
Post reply on HN