AI is a front for consolidation of resources and power • Hacker News Board

Re: AI is a front for consolidation of resources and power

#241

Post by atleastoptimal » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 9:34 AM UTC

I feel people were much more sensible about AI back when their thoughts about it weren't mixed with their antipathy for big tech.

In this article we see a sentiment I've often seen expressed:

> I doubt the AGI promise, not just because we keep moving the goal posts by redefining what we mean by AGI, but because it was always an abstract science fiction fantasy rather than a coherent, precise and measurable pursuit.

AGI isn't difficult at all to describe. It is basically a computer system that can do everything a human can. There are many benchmarks that AI systems fail at (especially real life motor control and adaptation to novel challenges over longer time horizons) that humans do better at, but once we run out of tests that humans can do better than AI systems, then I think it's fair to say we've reached AGI.

Why do authors like OP make it so complicated? Is it an attempt at equivocation so they can maintain their pessimistic/critical stance with a effusive deftness that confounds easy rebuttal?

It ultimately seems to come to a more moral/spiritual argument than a real one. What really should be so special about human brains that a computer system, even one devised by a company whose PR/execs you don't like, could never match it in general abilities?

Re: AI is a front for consolidation of resources and power

#242

Post by wiz21c » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 9:36 AM UTC

lomase wrote: post #201

01100011 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's time to jump on the train. I'm a cranky, old, embedded SWE and claude 4.5 is changing how I work. Before that I laughed off LLMs. They were trash. Claude still has issues, but damn, I think if I don't integrate it into my workflow I'll be out of work or relegated to work in QA or devops(where I'd likely be forced to use it). No, it's not going to write all your code for you. Yes your skills are still needed to d…

I am an old SWE and claude 4.5 has not changed a thing on how we work. The teams that have embraced AI in their worlflow have not increased their output compared with they ones that don't use it.

I'm like you. I'd say my productivity improved by 5-10%: Claude can make surprinsgly good code edits. For these, my subjective feeling is that claude does in 30 min what I'd have dont in one hour. It's a net gain. Now, my job is about communicating, understanding problems, learning, etc. So my overall productivity is not dramatically changing, but for things related to code, it's a net 5-10%

Re: AI is a front for consolidation of resources and power

#243

Post by aswegs8 » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 9:38 AM UTC

kakacik wrote: post #213

friendzis wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment your code departs from typical patterns in the training set or ("agentic environment") LLMs fall over at best (i.e. can't even find the thing) or do some random nonsense at worst. IMO LLMs are still at the point where they require significant handholding, showing what exactly to do, exactly where. Otherwise, it's constant review of random application of different random patterns, which may or may not satis…

A contrarian opinion - I also didn't jump the train yet, its even forbidden in our part of company due to various regulations re data secrecy and generally slow adoption. Also - for most seasoned developers, actual dev activity is miniscule part of overall efforts. If you are churning code like some sweatshop every single day at say 45 its by your own choice, you don't want to progress in career or career didn't push…

While I think that is true and this thread here is about senior productivity switching to LLMs, I can say from my experience that our juniors absolutely crush it using LLMs. They have to do pretty demanding and advanced stuff from the start and they are using LLMs nonstop. Not sure how that translates into long term learning but it definitely increases their output and makes them competent-enough developers to contribute right away.

Re: AI is a front for consolidation of resources and power

#244

Post by gniv » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 9:41 AM UTC

Remember a few years ago when people were asking what will big tech do with all that cash they were hoarding? Well this is the answer. It might be a bubble it might burst but they went all in and it's hard to disagree with their thinking.

Re: AI is a front for consolidation of resources and power

#245

Post by the8472 » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 9:45 AM UTC

atleastoptimal wrote: post #241

I feel people were much more sensible about AI back when their thoughts about it weren't mixed with their antipathy for big tech. In this article we see a sentiment I've often seen expressed: > I doubt the AGI promise, not just because we keep moving the goal posts by redefining what we mean by AGI, but because it was always an abstract science fiction fantasy rather than a coherent, precise and measurable pursuit. A…

> especially real life motor control

That's so last month. https://deepmind.google/models/gemini-robotics/

Re: AI is a front for consolidation of resources and power

#246

Post by jazzyjackson » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 9:46 AM UTC

atleastoptimal wrote: post #241

I feel people were much more sensible about AI back when their thoughts about it weren't mixed with their antipathy for big tech. In this article we see a sentiment I've often seen expressed: > I doubt the AGI promise, not just because we keep moving the goal posts by redefining what we mean by AGI, but because it was always an abstract science fiction fantasy rather than a coherent, precise and measurable pursuit. A…

I don't see how one could separate LLMs from big tech. Could call them big tech language models.

Re: AI is a front for consolidation of resources and power

#247

Post by amelius » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 9:49 AM UTC

Yes it's like the internet. First we thought it was a bubble. But then it turned out that it was actually a way for companies to keep us under surveillance and to sell us stuff without giving up ownership. And expensive subscriptions.

Re: AI is a front for consolidation of resources and power

#248

Post by Havoc » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 9:49 AM UTC

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #217

I don’t know a single developer who is NOT using LLMs in some form, so either they or their company are paying for it. And that’s just a single service - they probably have a home account, and another few different services to test things, so it’s not exactly making zero. Lately I’ve been finding LLM output to be hit and miss, but at the same time, I wouldn’t say they’re useless… I guess the ultimate question is - if…

The problem is developer spend alone isn’t near enough to justify valuations. There just aren’t enough. To have any hope in hell of this working the man on the street needs to see a substantial and real boost not just devs

Re: AI is a front for consolidation of resources and power

#249

Post by Hard_Space » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 9:51 AM UTC

jrochkind1 wrote: post #91

I'd like more people to talk about AI and surveillance. I think that is going to be one of it's biggest impacts on society(ies). We are a decade or two in to having massive video coverage, such that you are probably on someone's camera much of your day in the world, and video feeds that are increasingly cloud hosted. But nobody could possibly watch all that video. Even cameras specifically controlled by the police, i…

I think the cost of inference will massively reduce the possible benefits AND harms of the AI society. Even now, it's practically impossible to get ChatGPT to actually hard-parse a document instead of just reading the metadata (nor does it currently have any mechanism for truly watching a video).

That metadata has to come from somewhere; and the processes that create it also create heat, delay and expense.

Re: AI is a front for consolidation of resources and power

#250

Post by hiAndrewQuinn » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 9:51 AM UTC

atleastoptimal wrote: post #241

I feel people were much more sensible about AI back when their thoughts about it weren't mixed with their antipathy for big tech. In this article we see a sentiment I've often seen expressed: > I doubt the AGI promise, not just because we keep moving the goal posts by redefining what we mean by AGI, but because it was always an abstract science fiction fantasy rather than a coherent, precise and measurable pursuit. A…

People get very nervous about defending the value of the human brain "just because," I find.

There is nothing logically wrong with simply stating that it seems to you that human beings are the only agents worthy of moral consideration, and that this is true even in the face of an ASI which can effortlessly beat them at any task. Competence does not require qualia.

But it is an aggressive claim that people are uncomfortable making because the instant someone pushes back with "Why?", you don't have a lot of smart sounding options to return to. In the absolute best case you will get an answer somewhat like the following: I am an agent of moral consideration; agents more similar to me are more likely to be of moral consideration than agents less similar to me; we do not and probably cannot know which metrics actually map to moral consideration, so we have to take a pluralist prior; computer systems may be very similar to us along some metrics, but they are extremely different to us along most others; computer systems are very unlikely to be of moral consideration.