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Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

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Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#241

Post by MomsAVoxell »

mrguyorama wrote: post #191
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>Extra-judicial murder through out of control deployment of weapons via subterfuge is terrorism, also. No? The slave workers in Nazi germany who purposely fucked up equipment to get german soldiers killed were not committing a war crime. Sabotage is legitimate warfare. The french people getting the trust of german soldiers and then slitting their throats were not committing war crimes. >Civilians died in those indisc…

>sabotage is legitimate warfare

Show me the Article in the CCW which supports this claim. And do you mean sabotage against civilian infrastructure, or military materials? Again, show the Article, either way.

>If hezbollah are legitimate combatants, then they have to wear a uniform

Yes, true. Just as those responsible for the pager attacks had to identify themselves as combatants, also.

> If China puts backdoors in all the chips we buy from them, and we build weapons with those chips, and China pressed a button that self destructs all things made with those chips, that is also not a warcrime.

If this were to occur, it would be considered a war crime under one or more of the following articles:

- Perfidy (Art. 37 AP I)

- Indiscriminate attack (Art. 51(4) AP I)

- Excessive incidental civilian harm / disproportionality (Art. 51(5)(b) AP I)

- Treachery (broader Hague prohibition)

- Superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering (Art. 35(2) AP I)

- Failure to take feasible precautions (Art. 57 AP I)

Any of these 6 violations can constitute war crimes.

>“War crimes are pretty much only treating POWs incorrectly by doing medical "experiments" on them or genociding them.”

Okay, this is just plain, ignorant, crazy talk.

>”Please quote the part where blowing up a civilian with your target is called a war crime,”

Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions and from the Rome Statute of the ICC.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#242

Post by wiredpancake »

kryogen1c wrote: post #236
baklavaEmperor wrote: post #126

What’s striking is how often these ‘small’ surveillance tech stories trace back to the same state-aligned ecosystem. When Israel does it, it’s treated as a complex security issue. When another ‘bad’ country does the same thing, we immediately call it espionage. And almost on cue, the discussion drifts anywhere except the uncomfortable fact that it’s the same ecosystem from the same country showing up again.

[flagged]

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Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#243

Post by Centigonal »

Un1corn wrote: post #139
Centigonal wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Stuxnet to Pegasus to the 2024 pager attack, Israel has a history of leveraging its tech sector to advance its national security aims through clandestine means (this is not unusual: so does the US, and so does China). If you're a country with not-so-friendly relations with Israel, the company being founded in Israel is absolutely pertinent.

Which _Israeli_ companies were used for Stuxnet or the 2024 pager attack? NSO is not the same as the company from the article since it's explicitly a cyber company.

> Which _Israeli_ companies were used for Stuxnet or the 2024 pager attack?

I'll tell you as soon as you tell me exactly why ZTE devices were banned in the United States. The thing about clandestine operations is that they aren't done in the open.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#244

Post by MomsAVoxell »

shuraman7 wrote: post #235
thenaturalist wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Nobody is going to argue that the USA is a force for good in the world when it comes to starting one stupid, evil war, after the other. If the USA is good at one thing, its dropping bombs on innocent human beings every twenty minutes for the past twenty odd years. The question is, though, in which interest is it committing those crimes?

Oh, and .. who are you referring to as “people living in the US”, and by what means are you certain of this fact? HN is an international community.

Some of us don’t see national identity and just want the mass murder of children to stop, whatever it takes.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#245

Post by robocat »

jeroenhd wrote: post #131
duxup wrote: post #2

I recently bought a cheap android device because I needed to test something on Android. The setup was about 3 hours of the device starting up, asking me questions, installing apps I explicitly told it not to, and then all sorts of other apps and OS updates trying to do their thing seemingly at once. I wasn't even transferring data, just a brand new phone, new google account. What a horrible experience you get with so…

Cheap devices get subsidized by shitty adware. The cheaper the device, the more likely that it's full of terrible adware. Consumers often have a choice, at least between "filled to the brim with crap" and "a modicum of crap", by choosing between buying their phone from a store or from a carrier. Carriers have better deals but shovel their phones full of the worst apps you can imagine. Still, people will buy the crap-…

> subsidized

What's a better word here? Adverts cost the consumer, however I'm sure the consumer doesn't get equal recompense. Theoretically a SmartTV with adverts costs less money ("subsidised" due to price competition), but is the consumer actually ($,time) better off?

The costs are invisible and the consumer cannot actually measure the costs (the vendors do measure profitability but this is not legible).

I reckon most people are terrible at judging the value of their own time (especially children and retirees).

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#246

Post by MomsAVoxell »

galagawinkle489 wrote: post #173
ebbi wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you increasingly lose the court of public opinion, you resort to this sort of gaslighting. Because the Israeli Hasbara is now failing at this gaslighting strategy, you're leveling ad hominems towards people who see this as what it is - decades of war crimes and a humanitarian crisis. So either come up with a proper argument, or stay quiet. Gaslighting us into thinking we're being biased, or that we're ill inform…

The war crime is when Hamas and Hezbollah fire rockets indiscriminately into Israel to kill innocent civilians. Any and all means are and will always be justified to prevent that.

Prosecute All The War Criminals, But Start With YOUR OWN FIRST.

Only then will you have the moral altitude required to gain the support of the rest of the world in prosecuting “their” war criminals.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#247

Post by MomsAVoxell »

shuraman7 wrote: post #224
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

You have, of course, familiarized yourself with this material:

Common Article 3; GC I Art. 12 & 18; GC III Art. 13; GC IV Arts. 27, 32 & 51; AP I Arts. 48, 51(2–5), 57 & 54; CCW Amended Protocol II Art. 7(2) of the Geneva Conventions.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#248

Post by MomsAVoxell »

matkoniecz wrote: post #164
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

You might want to familiarize yourself with this material before commenting further on this thread:

Common Article 3; GC I Art. 12 & 18; GC III Art. 13; GC IV Arts. 27, 32 & 51; AP I Arts. 48, 51(2–5), 57 & 54; CCW Amended Protocol II Art. 7(2) of the Geneva Conventions.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#249

Post by MomsAVoxell »

monocasa wrote: post #209
dralley wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pager detonations were weak enough to be effectively nonlethal unless you're especially vulnerable. That's how you end up with such a low death to injury ratio in the first place. So per the KPI metric you've chosen, making it more lethal and more dangerous to bystanders would have been better.

Even among the injuries, you're still looking at an awful ratio, since Hezbollah had mostly migrated these devices out of their combatants in favor of newer models, and they were mainly in the hands of civilians. And all of this is ignoring the blatant international law violation against booby trapping. This was very clearly a war crime.

For future reference, the specific articles:

Common Article 3; GC I Art. 12 & 18; GC III Art. 13; GC IV Arts. 27, 32 & 51; AP I Arts. 48, 51(2–5), 57 & 54; CCW Amended Protocol II Art. 7(2) of the Geneva Conventions.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#250

Post by wiredpancake »

yb303 wrote: post #220
computerex wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhhhh, not sure about you, but I wouldn't want anything Israeli within 10m of my phone.

If you want to _really_ bar anything of Israeli origin, you should: - Not use Intel processors, as many are developed in Haifa - Not use a firewall. It was invented in the IDF. - Not use Waze. It's Israeli. - Not use thumb drives. Invented in Israel. - Not eat cherry tomatoes. Israeli development. The list goes on and on, but I must add - if you ever suffer a serious head or stomach injury, tell the medics to not use…

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