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.NET 10

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: .NET 10

#241

Post by runjake »

GiorgioG wrote: post #233
nicoburns wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma. I tried .NET and liked C# as a language. But even though the language and runtime are now open source, it seemed like a lot of the recommended libraries were still commercially licensed, which was an immediate nope from me. I've never encountered that in any other ecosystem.

Recommended by whom? I've been doing .NET for 23 years (since the first beta) and I've never paid for a single library in any commercial project I've been part of.

Not OP but I still run into paid libraries (eg Telerik) all over the place in projects.

Re: .NET 10

#242

Post by GiorgioG »

mohaine wrote: post #193
mexicocitinluez wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> culture of C# / Microsoft shops at al What do you mean?

Been awhile since I've worked at one but it is usually grounded in trying to achieve 100% MS usage. It is rarish to find a partial MS shop. Most of this is how hard MS makes it to use other tools. Even in 2025 they have good interop with external tools hamstrung. Example: SQL Servers JDBC driver will convert an entire table's of data from ASCII to UTF and a full table scan instead of convertering your UTF bind to ASC…

Not that rare, I work in one now and we use: .NET, Mongo, Postgres, SQL Server, Node, Python, etc.

Re: .NET 10

#243

Post by GiorgioG »

array_key_first wrote: post #187
mexicocitinluez wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> culture of C# / Microsoft shops at al What do you mean?

I worked at a Microsoft shop, and this was my experience. 1. Process, process, and more process. Doing anything required layers of management approval. Trivial tasks become month long, or even years long, processes. 2. You have no power or agency. Something is broken? You're a developer, you should be able to fix it right? No. Broken things stay broken. You swim in your lane and keep your head down. Mediocrity is the…

Congratulations, you worked at a huge company. Nothing to do with the tech stack.

Re: .NET 10

#244

Post by alexandrehtrb »

parliament32 wrote: post #211
cachius wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to read https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/deploying/nati... Publishing your app as Native AOT produces an app that's self-contained and that has been ahead-of-time (AOT) compiled to native code. Native AOT apps have faster startup time and smaller memory footprints. These apps can run on machines that don't have the .NET runtime installed.

And this sounds great until you get to the laundry list of restrictions. For us the showstopper was you can't use reflection.

Most reflection usage is for JSON (de)serialization and for that you can use source generators, which also offer better performance.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/serializat...

Re: .NET 10

#245

Post by thiago_fm »

dahauns wrote: post #125
thiago_fm wrote: post #65

Changed from Ruby to .NET and loving it. C# is a great language, it's now very modern and has the best parts of Typescript, while leaving out the bad ones. It's also extremely fast and multi-platform. It also doesn't have the fragmentation that Java or JVM langs has. And it's also open source nowadays. I think Sillicon Valley hasn't caught up with those recent changes, I bet more startups would be using C# if they kn…

>and has the best parts of Typescript I really like C#, but I wouldn't go that far - unions are at least on the horizon, but I've sometimes come to miss the power and flexibility of TS's structural typing...(And so has Hejlsberg, apparently, seeing his reasoning for choosing go over C# for tsc :) )

Might be my own taste, but except a few of the common and easy to understand structural typing code, I find it sometimes actually make things needlessly complex.

I also write lots of Typescript, and the furthest I go is to use 'Omit' and other utility types, but already feel like it's too much.

Re: .NET 10

#246

Post by whizzter »

GiorgioG wrote: post #233
nicoburns wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma. I tried .NET and liked C# as a language. But even though the language and runtime are now open source, it seemed like a lot of the recommended libraries were still commercially licensed, which was an immediate nope from me. I've never encountered that in any other ecosystem.

Recommended by whom? I've been doing .NET for 23 years (since the first beta) and I've never paid for a single library in any commercial project I've been part of.

Moq, lots of PDF libraries, Avalonia, Automapper, MediatR, MassTransit,Telerik stuff,etc.

I'm not inherently against it, we have a problem with opensource being asymmetrically underfunded and if people going commercial is the cost perhaps we've failed.

Re: .NET 10

#247

Post by petershinners »

parliament32 wrote: post #155
jitbit wrote: post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

I think the key problem is that a large number of startups are shipping software in containers, and dotnet requiring a CLR is not particularly well-suited for containerization. It's like the old school Java JVM model. You have to ship a copy of the runtime with every container, and if you're doing proper microservices it's an awful lot of overhead. Yes I'm aware MS makes it easy to build containers and even single ex…

A million different Javascript and Python services in delivered as Docker images would like a chance to disagree with you.

Re: .NET 10

#248

Post by aryonoco »

catlover76 wrote: post #4
jitbit wrote: post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

> I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma. There's that, but there's also the developer experience and functionality for people to run it on Mac and Linux. We have a small C# service that we run locally via Docker (which I think is usually the optimal setup anyways) and develop with VSCode. Since it's small, it has worked well. Would it work well if that was ou…

I work at a large enterprise where most of our backend js .NET and I can tell you that the dev team is nearly half and half split between Linux and Mac, and nearly half and half split on using VS Code and Rider.

Most of our code is deployed on Kubernetes and runs on AWS.

Developer experience means many things to different people. Personally for my most recent project, I used F# and the IDE was Rider and my OS was a form of immutable Fedora (Ublue OS) with devpod and devcontainers and the whole system was the most joyous developer experience I think I have ever had.

Re: .NET 10

#249

Post by catlover76 »

aryonoco wrote: post #248
catlover76 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma. There's that, but there's also the developer experience and functionality for people to run it on Mac and Linux. We have a small C# service that we run locally via Docker (which I think is usually the optimal setup anyways) and develop with VSCode. Since it's small, it has worked well. Would it work well if that was ou…

I work at a large enterprise where most of our backend js .NET and I can tell you that the dev team is nearly half and half split between Linux and Mac, and nearly half and half split on using VS Code and Rider. Most of our code is deployed on Kubernetes and runs on AWS. Developer experience means many things to different people. Personally for my most recent project, I used F# and the IDE was Rider and my OS was a f…

[dead]

Re: .NET 10

#250

Post by pixl97 »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #220
sfn42 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, .NET is a truck and React is a bicycle. Nobody sad you can't use different tools for different tasks. I'm saying use one tool for one task. One type of truck. One type of bicycle. Maybe some companies need both a small and a large truck. That's all fine as long as you actually need it. Just don't let every dev choose their own because you're gonna have a hell of a time maintaining that fleet.

>> Yeah, .NET is a truck and React is a bicycle I'm not a car guy but I most certainly a bicycle lover, so I will jump on you and say you often need more than one type of bicycle. Joan commutes to work? she wants a city ebike. Dan rides at the bike park? He wants a DH bike. Randy ride centuries on the weekend on his TDF road bike and Sally rides with her kids on a mountain bike. So yeah, we can pick one bike type and…

Eh, no, you don't hire those employees. You're stretching this analogy in some odd ways.
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