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Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

theregister.com

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Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#241

Post by HeinzStuckeIt »

verdverm wrote: post #239
rzerowan wrote: post #67

One thing that i would prefer in biometrics would be that the iris/fingerprints get treated as what they are publicly available and easily obtainable data. At worst using it a a secret key is similar to using your name as a hidden variable for authorisation, whent it sshould strictly be a identification token.And once leaked you cant revoke it . Back on topic , a Gattaca type system is unbelievably bleak and when(not…

A coworker from Chile has described their equivalent to a SSN as being used as a public ID rather than a password. Every IT company and government service has the same primary key in their database for each citizen. Wouldn't that be great! My question would be how do we get there?

Lots of countries use the SSN equivalent as a public ID and sometimes have for decades now. The Nordic countries, for example, often require it on any application that requires your real name. I, as an academic, just put in a grant application to a private foundation, and my number was required there like many other places.

In the US, leak of SSN apparently can result in identity theft and so its public use can seem especially troubling, but other countries use different secrets and processes for identity.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#242

Post by pixelready »

ksaun wrote: post #218
noduerme wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nit: Quality of life for average Germans went up, not down, once they brought back slavery and started pillaging other countries. If that's the metric we're using to decide what form of government we want, then all bets are off; ethics and morality play no part.

To be fair, pixelready said "average person," not "average American."

Yes, I would not like my own prosperity to come at the cost of others’ suffering (where “others” here means all of humanity). I understand hard choices must sometimes be made but I think our technology has progressed to the point that we can honestly provide a good quality of life for the vast majority of human beings globally if we were able to overcome old modes of thinking and actually set ourselves to that problem.

But it seems there are certain types of people or that under certain circumstances have grown to have this twisted need for “all”, instead of “just enough”. I don’t really understand that mindset as I haven’t experienced it myself. If my friends and family had UBI that allowed us all a good quality of life, I would split my time between spending time with them, reading and endlessly tinkering with new technology and adjacent creative fields, and be perfectly satisfied with that life. I crave the occasional toy, but simply don’t understand this constant ache for material accumulation that some people have. It seems to hurt them as much as it does everyone else around them.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#243

Post by autoexec »

im3w1l wrote: post #229
jrochkind1 wrote: post #222

I remember nostalgically when this kind of thing would have been so unpopular in the USA, including (especially?) among the "populist right", that it would not have happened. The escalation of the surveillance security state has been quick and vast.

I haven't fully made up my mind here, but I'm thinking that (most forms of) privacy is simply no longer viable due to technological advances. Mass collection of data is getting cheaper and cheaper, so these databases will be built. If not by the state than by corporations. And if laws prevent corporations, then by those operating outside the law like intelligence agencies (including foreign ones) and organized crime.…

We could absolutely regulate corporations so that they didn't collect, keep, and sell everyone's personal data. When the consequences are high enough and enforcement is consistent your grocery store won't go overseas to hand your data to a mafia boss and Netflix isn't going to sell your data in a dark alley to an illegal black market data broker.

Corporations didn't need our current level of surveillance in order to become massively wealthy and they won't risk their wealth just to find out the last time you took a shit or who you're sleeping with and how often.

Surveillance capitalism is a choice. It's happening because at the moment it's profitable, but it can be made unprofitable (or even dangerous) to collect and sell and the moment that happens it all stops.

Just because the technology exists to abuse something that doesn't make it inevitable that it will happen everywhere all the time. The problem we have now is that abusing technology to exploit and control people through the misuse and sale of their personal data is making a lot of people money hand over fist (including people in government) and they'll fight like hell to keep that easy cash and to convince you that any other kind of life would be impossible. Don't fall for the lie.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#244

Post by mmooss »

the_gipsy wrote: post #148
mmooss wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are 'this government's best friend, advocating for their opponents to give up and quit. In a remarkable pattern that I never thought I'd see in the rugged individualistic, idealistic, freedom-loving USA, a large group is literally self-defeating: They defeat themselves before even getting out of bed. That's why your opponents are unstoppable - because you don't stop them. The performative nonsense is their aggres…

First, the post literally gives instructions to do something. Second, the root problem is not incompetence, it's that half of America wanted exactly this, for a second time now.

> the root problem is not incompetence, it's that half of America wanted exactly this, for a second time now.

That is the same psychology I described in the GP: Instead of looking in the mirror and figuring out what they need to do better, they blame outside forces. It's victim psychology - powerless, someone else's fault, etc.

Your group failed; people didn't vote for it because you are well-known quitters and whiners and victims - and losers; you're ok with losing and quit when it happens - and you conduct shitty politics as a result. Who votes for that? Who even can stand to listen to it - it's sickening, depressing, disheartening.

The right wing says, 'we believe in X and we won't be stopped no matter what; we will never give up'. That gets votes. That gets things done.

Get out of bed, stop crying, and get to work. That you still hold on politically with this victim psychology shows how bad the right wing's message is. Never give up, never even talk about it.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#245

Post by verdverm »

HeinzStuckeIt wrote: post #241
verdverm wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A coworker from Chile has described their equivalent to a SSN as being used as a public ID rather than a password. Every IT company and government service has the same primary key in their database for each citizen. Wouldn't that be great! My question would be how do we get there?

Lots of countries use the SSN equivalent as a public ID and sometimes have for decades now. The Nordic countries, for example, often require it on any application that requires your real name. I, as an academic, just put in a grant application to a private foundation, and my number was required there like many other places. In the US, leak of SSN apparently can result in identity theft and so its public use can seem…

yea, in the US, we use the SSN or the last 4 digits, as a security question, which is why it can lead to identity theft

the goal would be to stop using SSN(4) as a secret

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#247

Post by miki123211 »

_w1tm wrote: post #139
miki123211 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biometrics can be a secure secret key, as long as there's a trusted guard manning the reader, ensuring that you're showing your real fingerprint / face and not a fake.

Why bother with the scan if you can have a perfect guard in place?

The guard makes sure the biometircs presented to the reader actually belong to the person standing there. The reader identifies who (in its database) the presented biometircs belong to.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#248

Post by fnordpiglet »

mmooss wrote: post #123
fnordpiglet wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect this government isn’t receptive to commentary from anyone other than only one person. While I’d never discourage anyone from advocating their beliefs this feels like at best a waste of energy. They are going to do it because they decided to do it - the solicitation of comments is performative and required. The only way to stop it is via the courts and by voting next November.

You are 'this government's best friend, advocating for their opponents to give up and quit. In a remarkable pattern that I never thought I'd see in the rugged individualistic, idealistic, freedom-loving USA, a large group is literally self-defeating: They defeat themselves before even getting out of bed. That's why your opponents are unstoppable - because you don't stop them. The performative nonsense is their aggres…

Taking performative actions you are certain will fail unnoticed is a waste of energy. I most certainly didn’t advise doing nothing, this seems like a hyperbolic take that ignores what I suggested was more impactful. By extension, encouraging others to take those actions is productive and there are other actions I didn’t enumerate that are productive - I didn’t intend to be exhaustive in all actions that could be productive, just that this specific action of commenting on their preordained policy decisions is pointless. I don’t see any argument here that in any way refutes that so I assume you agree.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#249

Post by walletdrainer »

rembicilious wrote: post #114
duped wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they be publicly available and easily obtainable?

Many SSNs have been compromised already. The jig is up. It was never supposed to be an identity system but organisations keep insisting on using it as one. Even if they aren’t literally publicly available and easily obtainable, they should be treated as such. https://constella.ai/verifying-the-national-public-data-brea...

Unless you’ve been a hermit or homeless for the entirety of your life, just about anyone can get your SSN from Accurint or TLO for a few bucks.

Sure, in theory Accurint and TLO do KYC. In practice you can find tons of people on various crime forums offering those lookups for a few dollars a pop.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#250

Post by fnordpiglet »

themafia wrote: post #118
fnordpiglet wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect this government isn’t receptive to commentary from anyone other than only one person. While I’d never discourage anyone from advocating their beliefs this feels like at best a waste of energy. They are going to do it because they decided to do it - the solicitation of comments is performative and required. The only way to stop it is via the courts and by voting next November.

> this government isn’t receptive to commentary from anyone Name one government of the past 60 years that was.

Actually the comment collection process has in fact caused changes in policy over many administrations, largely because the policy makers were interested in achieving some goal aligned to their function and believed in our system. When commentary went strongly against their policy there was often a step back and reassessment. This administration appears to have two goals: maximally hurt people who hurt Trumps feelings and create the deep state they lamented but never really existed until now to continue to maximally hurt people similar to those who hurt trumps feels in perpetuity.
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