Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A change of address led to our Wise accounts being shut down

shaun.nz

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 275 posts

Re: A change of address led to our Wise accounts being shut down

#241

Post by jesterson »

hkpack wrote: post #211
jesterson wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have and never will forgive them for this. Ukraine is well known money laundering machine. Before the conflict started it was a well known fact and many banks didn't want to work with transfers to Ukraine. I am sure TransferWise shared similar risk model.

> Ukraine is well known money laundering machine. Can you provide any sources for this? Ukraine had very strict banking rules for at least a decade. It had much more sense to launder through Cyprus for example or other EU countries like Latvia (when it was still possible) or Hungary if you’re politically connected.

> Can you provide any sources for this?

Thats common knowledge for everyone even tangentially related to finance industry and likely for anyone who ever did international business with cross border payments . Not sure what kind of "sources" you expect to see here.

> Ukraine had very strict banking rules for at least a decade

Perhaps for it's own populace, but not for it's rulers and those who they work with.

Re: A change of address led to our Wise accounts being shut down

#242

Post by jesterson »

bfkwlfkjf wrote: post #192
jesterson wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have and never will forgive them for this. Ukraine is well known money laundering machine. Before the conflict started it was a well known fact and many banks didn't want to work with transfers to Ukraine. I am sure TransferWise shared similar risk model.

Everything you say might be technically true. But if you look at the bigger picture, Ukraine has been invaded and occupied by a bigger countries which buys western banks to do it's money laundering through. Now is not the time to be discipling. Justice is more than just following laws.

> Justice is more than just following laws

Justice also isn't what you feel justice is.

The whole point of laws is to have a set of definitions and do judgements upon.

> buys western banks to do it's money laundering through

Western banks do enough money laundering even without changing owners to beneficiaries from Russia.

Re: A change of address led to our Wise accounts being shut down

#243

Post by jesterson »

Max-Ganz-II wrote: post #199
cjs_ac wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that's a matter to be settled in a court. Banks and other financial institutions have no business deciding what's just; they just follow the regulations given to them by governments and the courts.

Russia invaded Ukraine, inflicting untold horror, and Russia is a threat to Europe. In the circumstances of early 2022, I would have expected a way to be found, in the knowledge that such an action - telescope held to blind eye - would be condoned.

> Russia invaded Ukraine, inflicting untold horror, and Russia is a threat to Europe.

Realistically it is way more nuanced than that. Its a juvenile worldview to think in black and white.

Not willing to start any discussion on the matter, but you may want to know about massacres ukraine did in it's eastern side. After all, the russian invasion wasnt that unprovoked at all (albeit as any force causing many to suffer, it's hard to justify it).

The bottomline is - reality is way more nuanced than just black and white.

Re: A change of address led to our Wise accounts being shut down

#244

Post by jlaternman »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #165
bsder wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At some point customer service died. At some point enforcement died. It used to be that locking someone out of their money would wind up with people in jail . Now, it's not just a cost of doing business but also viewed as a positive by state actors.

...when exactly would you have gone to jail for this?

Yep. I'd like to see some news stories confirming this magical past.

Re: A change of address led to our Wise accounts being shut down

#245

Post by jlaternman »

jesterson wrote: post #241
hkpack wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ukraine is well known money laundering machine. Can you provide any sources for this? Ukraine had very strict banking rules for at least a decade. It had much more sense to launder through Cyprus for example or other EU countries like Latvia (when it was still possible) or Hungary if you’re politically connected.

> Can you provide any sources for this? Thats common knowledge for everyone even tangentially related to finance industry and likely for anyone who ever did international business with cross border payments . Not sure what kind of "sources" you expect to see here. > Ukraine had very strict banking rules for at least a decade Perhaps for it's own populace, but not for it's rulers and those who they work with.

Do you mean some Russians used Ukraine as a money laundering middleman, specifically through corruption of politicians and elites in the system there? Because it sounds like it. Before the "conflict" (invasion) happened.

Re: A change of address led to our Wise accounts being shut down

#246

Post by jesterson »

jlaternman wrote: post #245
jesterson wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you provide any sources for this? Thats common knowledge for everyone even tangentially related to finance industry and likely for anyone who ever did international business with cross border payments . Not sure what kind of "sources" you expect to see here. > Ukraine had very strict banking rules for at least a decade Perhaps for it's own populace, but not for it's rulers and those who they work with.

Do you mean some Russians used Ukraine as a money laundering middleman, specifically through corruption of politicians and elites in the system there? Because it sounds like it. Before the "conflict" (invasion) happened.

I'll leave your imagination to judge who used ukraine as money laundering machine. To have some supplementary data for that, we can look where the money entering ukraine come from for say last 5 years. You can easily find how much was coming from russia and compare it with flow from say EU. You should be capable of drawing your own conclusions after.

Re: A change of address led to our Wise accounts being shut down

#247

Post by jlaternman »

nucleardog wrote: post #230
peanut-walrus wrote: post #120

The KYC/AML dance is really annoying. The actual bad guys know exactly what they need to pass all the checks, while regular people, as in this case, often get caught in the wheels. Banks or fintechs rarely have the kind of investigative powers they would need to actually find the criminals using them, nor do they really want to spend their time playing police. So anything even remotely suspicious? You're now out of o…

Only slightly related, but it gave me a laugh-- Wise needed beneficial ownership documentation for my business account. Presumably this was part of the whole KYC/AML/etc dance. There's no standard form I could find for this, document to get out of the government service portal, or anything else. I finally just fired up a word processor and put together a single page document: To whom in may concern, Below is an accou…

Wow, haha. Reminds me of the recent South Park where they hold up the phone and the AI says "I can confirm we have the authority to pass."

Re: A change of address led to our Wise accounts being shut down

#248

Post by bsder »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #165
bsder wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At some point customer service died. At some point enforcement died. It used to be that locking someone out of their money would wind up with people in jail . Now, it's not just a cost of doing business but also viewed as a positive by state actors.

...when exactly would you have gone to jail for this?

Lots of banking access laws were put in place after the Great Depression and vestiges still remain although most of them have been repealed.

See, for example, Section 37.002(c) of the Texas finance code: "An office or operation may not remain closed for more than three consecutive days, excluding days on which the bank is customarily closed, without the banking commissioner’s approval."

Laws like these were put in place because failing to disburse someone's money could cause a bank run.

Re: A change of address led to our Wise accounts being shut down

#249

Post by mieses »

jesterson wrote: post #243
Max-Ganz-II wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia invaded Ukraine, inflicting untold horror, and Russia is a threat to Europe. In the circumstances of early 2022, I would have expected a way to be found, in the knowledge that such an action - telescope held to blind eye - would be condoned.

> Russia invaded Ukraine, inflicting untold horror, and Russia is a threat to Europe. Realistically it is way more nuanced than that. Its a juvenile worldview to think in black and white. Not willing to start any discussion on the matter, but you may want to know about massacres ukraine did in it's eastern side. After all, the russian invasion wasnt that unprovoked at all (albeit as any force causing many to suffer,…

No, it's really very simple. What kind of person wants to become a CEO of Russia, Ukraine, or Transferwise?

Re: A change of address led to our Wise accounts being shut down

#250

Post by bfkwlfkjf »

mieses wrote: post #249
jesterson wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia invaded Ukraine, inflicting untold horror, and Russia is a threat to Europe. Realistically it is way more nuanced than that. Its a juvenile worldview to think in black and white. Not willing to start any discussion on the matter, but you may want to know about massacres ukraine did in it's eastern side. After all, the russian invasion wasnt that unprovoked at all (albeit as any force causing many to suffer,…

No, it's really very simple. What kind of person wants to become a CEO of Russia, Ukraine, or Transferwise?

Or Wirecard lol
Post reply on HN