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ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

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Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#241

Post by _yb2s »

bdangubic wrote: post #237
_yb2s wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need states to step in and encourage local police to arrest federal agents breaking the law, and allow victims to sue in state courts.

lovely ideas that no longer work in america given that SCOTUS is now a branch of a political party so all the suing leads to nothing but time-wasting unfortunately

I am not a lawyer, but might it be possible to do entirely within a state using state law, in a way that fundamentally cannot be escalated to the supreme court because it does not involve federal law in any way? I expect this might require some changes to state laws to make it possible in the first place.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#242

Post by solid_fuel »

reenorap wrote: post #168

[flagged]

> This entire encounter is fake.

No, this entire encounter is illegal. It is a crime, being committed by the republican administration running the federal government and endorsed by every republican in congress who has declined to reign in the illegal behavior of the trump administration.

It is, however, very real. If you reside in American, then this is the reality you live in, imposed upon you by republican voters. You don't get to just plug your ears and cover your eyes.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#243

Post by dragonwriter »

_yb2s wrote: post #241
bdangubic wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lovely ideas that no longer work in america given that SCOTUS is now a branch of a political party so all the suing leads to nothing but time-wasting unfortunately

I am not a lawyer, but might it be possible to do entirely within a state using state law, in a way that fundamentally cannot be escalated to the supreme court because it does not involve federal law in any way? I expect this might require some changes to state laws to make it possible in the first place.

> I am not a lawyer, but might it be possible to do entirely within a state using state law, in a way that fundamentally cannot be escalated to the supreme court because it does not involve federal law in any way?

No, any arrests of federal agents notionally doing what they are assigned by the federal government will have an easy route for the federal government to raise justiciable questions of federal law regarding state interference with exercise of federal powers. The feds may not always have a good case—they won't always win in a fair court—but it's hard to imagine them not being able to actually get in the door with a federal court in that basis.

OTOH, when you have armed agents of the state attempting to forcibly arrest armed federal agents, you also have a very real risk of creating the kind of conflict that is resolved kinetically—and in a way that rapidly speaks out of control in scale—rather than in court.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#244

Post by nitwit005 »

fabian2k wrote: post #24

The absolutely outrageous thing is that apparently they are instructed to ignore all other evidence of citizenship if that app says someone is not a citizen. So even if you have your birth certificate ready, doesn't matter. This is completely lawless. From the article: > He also said “ICE officials have told us that an apparent biometric match by Mobile Fortify is a ‘definitive’ determination of a person’s status and…

I'm somewhat morbidly curious how many citizens we're going to deport to random countries. It happened fairly often before this administration.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#245

Post by dmitrygr »

cosmicgadget wrote: post #206
dmitrygr wrote: post #30

'Katz v. United States' was quite clear - you have no expectation of privacy in public. Anyone may photograph you and use said photos. Do I like it? No. But that is the current caselaw in USA. "What a person knowingly exposes to the public [...] is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection." - Justice Potter in 'Katz v. United States'

Keep in mind that what "anyone" can do and what "anyone serving in an official government capacity" can do are different.

The case I cited specifically talked about government doing it.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#246

Post by _yb2s »

FireBeyond wrote: post #109
_yb2s wrote: post #55

Don’t fall for the lie that this is at all about illegal immigration- that is just an excuse for what has become state sponsored KKK style racial terrorism operating completely outside the law. Videos all over the Internet show them violently attacking and terrorizing hispanic looking people with no concern for if they are citizens or not. At the Wilder raid in Idaho they were shooting children with rubber bullets, a…

Very much so. There's multiple videos of them standing in Walmart parking lots and as shoppers walk out with their carts, anyone vaguely Hispanic is being questioned. "Where were you born? Are you American?" Probable cause is out the window. This is, firsthand, Steven Millers White America policy starting to take effect.

I expected a lot more pushback on here for calling this out as terrorism than I got… I took a several month hiatus from this site and before I left it was all “you’re just being hyperbolic, Trump is just going to enforce the immigration laws exactly as written.” It seems that nearly all of those people have rethought their opinions in light of recent events- which I guess/hope bodes well for the chances of our country coming together in a unified way to stand against this.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#247

Post by kragen »

troyvit wrote: post #229
kragen wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's ironic about it? That's like saying it's ironic for soldiers to fire their guns while in a trench. They're doing things unto others that they would not have done unto them.

> That's like saying it's ironic for soldiers to fire their guns while in a trench. ICE using military tactics (be it trenches or masks) is the real problem here. ICE aren't soldiers, they're a part of law enforcement. Unfortunately in the U.S. today we not only do use troops for law enforcement, but we're using law enforcement as troops. Neither is the correct role for those services.

Yes, it's a big problem, and what you're seeing is only the beginning.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#248

Post by tracker1 »

evanjrowley wrote: post #83
jazzyjackson wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biometrics are more protected in IL than an other states as well. Facebook settled a big lawsuit just for automatically tagging people (actually the suit was about storing the biometric face data at all without consent)

Legal action against this is going to be a tough, possibly unfeasable battle. Whatever the laws are, they probably contain exceptions for the use of biometrics for law enforcement purposes. In terms of court precedent, biometrics are not protected by the 4th amendment, because your face is not considered a secret that the government could compel you to reveal.

Beyond this, state law may not supersede federal authority. This will likely go to the Supreme Court before it's actually decided, short of congressional action (unlikely).

I'm not sure if these requests are only made if other ID isn't available or a refusal to present id happens. That said, I'm not sure how this qualifies as reasonable suspicion in terms of stopping someone without evidence of some other crime in progress or as part of a warranted raid activity. Though stops on highways within 100 miles of a border is very much permitted for identification, unsure if this would fall under those provisions.

While I absolutely support deportations, this appears at first glance to be over the top... but I'd like to see any clarifying statements from ICE, which I don't recall seeing in the article.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#249

Post by tracker1 »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #211
sowbug wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question for a future (2026?) dystopia: if our faces aren't secret or private for 4A/5A purposes, can we start making them secret/private by walking around in public with a balaclava? New norms go both ways.

We now know why people had such weird makeup/facial modification attachments in dystopian sci-fi. Luckily we have libertarians, 1990s Republicans, and Hannity and Infowars fans that will fight vehemently to stop this sort of face scanning. It is all of theirs' nightmare scenarios way past all their red lines up there with Walmarts turned into relocation camps. But until they sort it out is it possible to make tempora…

Agreed there are definitely a lot of Libertarians and Republicans that definitely object to random use of facial recognition as presented.

As I mentioned in another comment, I'd like to see any clarifying statements from ICE/DoJ on this before jumping to conclusions as framing often cuts off portions of video or otherwise warps framing of events. Not to mention, I don't recall seeing any mention of a request for comment in the article.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#250

Post by array_key_first »

_yb2s wrote: post #246
FireBeyond wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very much so. There's multiple videos of them standing in Walmart parking lots and as shoppers walk out with their carts, anyone vaguely Hispanic is being questioned. "Where were you born? Are you American?" Probable cause is out the window. This is, firsthand, Steven Millers White America policy starting to take effect.

I expected a lot more pushback on here for calling this out as terrorism than I got… I took a several month hiatus from this site and before I left it was all “you’re just being hyperbolic, Trump is just going to enforce the immigration laws exactly as written.” It seems that nearly all of those people have rethought their opinions in light of recent events- which I guess/hope bodes well for the chances of our countr…

The unfortunate reality is that lots of those people were agents of propaganda, such as Russian bots. The goal was to get the authoritarian elected and the ball rolling - so they're all gone now.
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