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OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

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Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#241

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

anonymous908213 wrote: post #46
OgsyedIE wrote: post #12

Surprised it's so low. There are 800 million users and the typical developed country has around 5±3% of the population[1] reporting at least one notable instance of suicidal feelings per year. . [1] Anybody concerned by such figures (as one justifiably should be without further context) should note that suicidality in the population is typically the result of their best approximation of the rational mind attempting t…

> best approximation of the rational mind attempting to figure out an escape from a consistently negative situation under conditions of very limited information about alternatives I dislike this phrasing, because it implies things can always get better if only the suicidal person were a bit less ignorant. The reality is there are countless situations from which the entire rest of your life is 99.9999% guaranteed to c…

This is a good point.

A few days ago I heard about a man who attempted suicide. It's not even an extreme case of disease or anything like that. It's just that he is over 70 (around 72, I think), with his wife in the process of divorcing him, and no children.

Even though I am lucky to be a happy person that enjoys life, I find it difficult to argue that he shouldn't suicide. At that age he's going to see his health declining, it's not going to get better in that respect. He is losing his wife who was probably what gave his life meaning. It's too late for most people to meet someone new. Is life really going to give him more joy than suffering? Very unlikely. I suppose he should still hang on if he loves his wife because his suicide would be a trauma for her, but if the divorce is bitter and he doesn't care... honestly I don't know if I could sincerely argue for him not to do it.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#242

Post by koakuma-chan »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #231
koakuma-chan wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Go to parties.... One of the 5 biggest party days is this Friday, and with it being on a Friday it will be more intense. You mean Halloween? > Go to parties and have fun and meet people. You mean standing with a glass of champagne in hand, smiling, and talking for the sake of talking? I don't understand how this is fun. I tried doing that, albeit without champagne, and that had not yielded anything other than an in…

It's fun for many of us due to the combination of music, dancing, alcohol and socialization (in varying proportions: depending on tastes, interests and circumstances, one or two of those aspects can be set to zero and it's still enjoyable). Of course, it's also perfectly fine not to like it, and then the most reasonable course of action is not to go. Or to go a couple of times until you're sure you don't like it, and…

> it's not "for the sake of talking", it's for the sake of socializing, meeting new people, building connections, which is the whole point when we're talking about flirting or lack thereof.

In my experience you really have to be constantly spitting nonsense to keep the conversation from ending and to avoid awkward silence. When the other person is talking, even if I didn't hear most of what they said, I keep nodding, because I don't actually care in the slightest about what they were talking about, and so asking to repeat does not make sense, as that would only increase awkwardness. This is why I said "for the sake of talking." The only thing that matters is that you are talking, not the content of the talk.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#243

Post by WA »

jacquesm wrote: post #215
true_religion wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HIPAA only applies to covered healthcare entitites. If you walk into a McDonalds' and talk about your suicidal ideation with the cashier, that's not HIPAA covered. To become a covered entity, the business has either work with a healhcare provider, health data trasmiter, or do business as one. Notably, even in the above case, HIPAA only applies to the healthcare part of the entity. So if McDonald's collocated pharmaci…

Arguably, if you start giving answers to these kind of questions your chatbot just became a medical device.

Under Medical Device Regulation in the EU, the main purpose of the software needs to be medical for it to become a medical device. In ChatGPT's case, this is not the primary use case.

Same with fitness trackers. They aren't medical devices, because that's not their purpose, but some users might use them to track medical conditions.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#244

Post by mrweasel »

drawfloat wrote: post #135
sammy2255 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because I had hundreds of chats and image creations that I can no longer see. Can't even log in. My account was banned for "CSAM" even though I did no such thing, that's pretty insulting. Support doesn't reply, it's been over 4 months

I'd be careful going around advertising yourself publicly as banned for that, even if it's not true.

It's really important that people do. Others, including the media, police, legal system and politicians needs to understand how easily people can be falsely flagged by automated CSAM system.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#245

Post by grey-area »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #236
probably_wrong wrote: post #229

If you haven't read the article (or even if you have but didn't click on outgoing links twice ) the NYT story about how ChatGPT convinced a suicidal teen not to look for help [1] should convince you that ChatGPT should be nowhere near anyone dealing with psychological issues. Here's ChatGPT discouraging said teenager from asking for help: > “I want to leave my noose in my room so someone finds it and tries to stop me…

We would need the big picture, though... maybe it caused that death (which is awful) but it's also saving lives? If there are that many people confiding in it, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually prevents some suicides with encouraging comments, and that's not going to make the news. Before declaring that it shouldn't be near anyone with psychological issues, someone in the relevant field should study whether the…

A word generator with no intelligence or understanding based on the contents of the internet should not be allowed near suicidal teens, nor should it attempt to offer advice of any kind.

This is basic common sense.

Add in the commercial incentives of 'Open'AI to promote usage for anything and everything and you have a toxic mix.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#246

Post by bloqs »

probably_wrong wrote: post #229

If you haven't read the article (or even if you have but didn't click on outgoing links twice ) the NYT story about how ChatGPT convinced a suicidal teen not to look for help [1] should convince you that ChatGPT should be nowhere near anyone dealing with psychological issues. Here's ChatGPT discouraging said teenager from asking for help: > “I want to leave my noose in my room so someone finds it and tries to stop me…

im willing to bet that it reduces them at a statistical level. knee jerk emotional reaction to a hallucinaton isnt the way forward with these things

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#247

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

grey-area wrote: post #245
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would need the big picture, though... maybe it caused that death (which is awful) but it's also saving lives? If there are that many people confiding in it, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually prevents some suicides with encouraging comments, and that's not going to make the news. Before declaring that it shouldn't be near anyone with psychological issues, someone in the relevant field should study whether the…

A word generator with no intelligence or understanding based on the contents of the internet should not be allowed near suicidal teens, nor should it attempt to offer advice of any kind. This is basic common sense. Add in the commercial incentives of 'Open'AI to promote usage for anything and everything and you have a toxic mix.

Supposing that the advice it provides does more good than harm, why? What's the objective reason? If it can save lives, who cares if the advice is based on intelligence and understanding or on regurgitating internet content?

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#248

Post by torben-friis »

probably_wrong wrote: post #229

If you haven't read the article (or even if you have but didn't click on outgoing links twice ) the NYT story about how ChatGPT convinced a suicidal teen not to look for help [1] should convince you that ChatGPT should be nowhere near anyone dealing with psychological issues. Here's ChatGPT discouraging said teenager from asking for help: > “I want to leave my noose in my room so someone finds it and tries to stop me…

>should convince you that ChatGPT should be nowhere near anyone dealing with psychological issues.

Is that a debate worth having though?

If the tool is available universally it is hard to imagine any way to stop access without extreme privacy measures.

Blocklisting people would require public knowledge of their issues, and one risks the law enforcement effect, where people don’t seek help for fear that it ends up in their record.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#249

Post by bayindirh »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #236
probably_wrong wrote: post #229

If you haven't read the article (or even if you have but didn't click on outgoing links twice ) the NYT story about how ChatGPT convinced a suicidal teen not to look for help [1] should convince you that ChatGPT should be nowhere near anyone dealing with psychological issues. Here's ChatGPT discouraging said teenager from asking for help: > “I want to leave my noose in my room so someone finds it and tries to stop me…

We would need the big picture, though... maybe it caused that death (which is awful) but it's also saving lives? If there are that many people confiding in it, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually prevents some suicides with encouraging comments, and that's not going to make the news. Before declaring that it shouldn't be near anyone with psychological issues, someone in the relevant field should study whether the…

Maybe it's causing even more deaths than we know, and these doesn't make the news either?

If we think this way, then we don't need to improve safety of anything (cars, trains, planes, ships, etc.) because we would need the big picture, though... maybe these vehicles cause death (which is awful), but it's also transporting people to their destinations alive. If there are that many people using these, I wouldn't be surprised if these actually transports some people with comfort, and that's not going to make the news.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#250

Post by econ »

Long ago I complaint to Google that a search for suicide should point at helpful organisations rather than a Wikipedia article listing ways how to do it.

The same ranking/preference/suggestion should apply to any dedicated organisation vs a single page on some popular website.

A quality 1000 page website by and about Foobar org should be preferred over a 10 year old news article about Foobar org.

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