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French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#241

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

Isn't that the case in pretty much every Country to a certain extent though?

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#242
post #219

Imagine, a land full of mother sauces, divine cuisine and pastries, and a corrupt and sentenced felon actually facing (eventual) justice for the crimes they committed. This sounds like a magical land (all is relative).

[flagged]

Because a significant percentage of people in every country crave authoritarianism and grift?

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's crazy to me is seeing this happen at an individual level. In 2022, my conservative family members were reluctantly but firmly on board with the idea that Trump did the crimes: lied to the tax man, stole the classified documents, leaned on the Georgia secretary of state to "find me 11780 votes," and on Jan 6 set up fake electors and asked Pence to overturn the election. In each case, they gave a good fight, but…

> stole the classified documents A nitpick of mine is how Trump having the documents wasn’t the case against him. The case against Trump was an obstruction case because he lied and concealed the documents from authorities, going so far as shuffling them between properties, having his lawyers give false statements, and defying subpoenas. This differentiates Trumps document case from everyone else’s (ie Bidens); the ri…

Yes! And when the FBI started closing in he asked his bodyguard to pull some of the documents and his IT guy to wipe the video evidence! The details are sooo much worse than the high level description can do justice.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#245
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One can only dream about such a judicial system that puts criminals behind the bars even if they are very very VIP. Rule of law is what makes the difference between real democracies and AliExpress ones. Unfortunately, the trend for more rule based order has reversed. European governments are all struggling when the "who cares about rules" governments are full steam ahead. Even if they have net negative approval, th…

> Thankfully, the world isn't made just from "the west", so I guess its not the end for the humanity - yet. "Humanity" as in "the species homo sapiens sapiens", yes, that will survive. But "humanity" as in "societies ruled by foundational human rights and democracy"? Not if Trump's USA, China, Russia and Modi's India have their will.

I don't understand how somebody can speak of the West having "foundational human rights and democracy" non-ironically now a days. We are literally providing the weapons to carry out an actual genocide in Gaza. And 'democracy' doesn't elevate Trump vs Biden as the two most liked candidates in the country. It's just a system with intentionally massive barriers to entry played by political elites and the occasional outsider billionaire, exactly the same in systems of minority rule.

The past ~10 years have been a serious masks off moment. I long for who we were in the past, but I sometimes wonder if we ever were that, or if it was just a more well maintained facade. But this current nonsense? Yeah, I'm not particularly upset about giving another bloc having their time in the limelight, because at this point somebody calling what we've become to be grounded on 'foundational human rights and democracy' is plainly nauseating.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#246
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, in English, convicted means that someone has been officially declared guilty of some crime. After being convicted comes being sentenced , which is when the punishment is set. On the other hand, condemned is specifically about being sentenced to death -or sometimes life in prison or some similarly hard punishment-. Which is also why a building is said to be condemned when it is set to be demolished.

Interestingly in french we use "condamné" for sentenced, and for any kind of sentence (even a fine). We don't ever use "sentence" in a legal context (it still exists but is old fashioned), things diverged quite a bit it seems between those languages.

In Spain, in a legal context, it's either condenado (condemned) or sentenciado (sentenced) more or less indistinctly. I have the impression we use a lot of words without much care for details.

Out of that context, it's usually condenado the one used.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apply the same thought process to ‘punishment’. Those who spend a lot of time in prison seem to come out worse and reoffend. How is that helpful?

I don't know, if somebody kills my child, I don't know why you'd expect me to be helpful to him.

Even to prevent them continuing to kill someone else's child later?

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#249

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

What's crazy to me is seeing this happen at an individual level. In 2022, my conservative family members were reluctantly but firmly on board with the idea that Trump did the crimes: lied to the tax man, stole the classified documents, leaned on the Georgia secretary of state to "find me 11780 votes," and on Jan 6 set up fake electors and asked Pence to overturn the election. In each case, they gave a good fight, but…

Isn't it curious how your comment collects downvotes, despite just stating facts.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#250

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

I think that, at least from my American perspective, there are two uncomfortable truths about national political figures:

1. They are the voice of a group of millions of people, and therefore a perception will exist that an attack on the politician is an attack on those people as well 2. Sure seems like a lot of them are compromised in some way, so any time one is targeted it will always seem selective in the moment

I don't know how much that intersects with what you're observing, and I don't really have easy answers.

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