spoken as a true LLM
LLMs can get "brain rot"
241–250 of 310 posts
Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"
#242Off topic completely but I really like the font used in this blog
I like the gradient font style in the overview :)
I hate it but I still found it interesting that something like it can be done with just CSS (-webkit-linear-gradient)
Edit: I noticed that replacing it with "standard" "linear-gradient" reverses the direction of gradient.
Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
it's a shibboleth. In the same way we stopped using Pepe the frog when it became associated with the far right, we may eschew em dashes when associated with compuslop
I never understood why so many people would yield their symbols and language that quickly and freely to others they dislike. In other words, I really hope typographically correct dashes are not already 70% of the way through the hyperstitious slur cascade [1]! [1] https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/give-up-seventy-percent-of-...
The alternative is… what? ‘Defending’ against the use of Em-dashes by LLMs? Or people reacting to that?
You might as well be sweeping a flood uphill.
Tilting at windmills at least has a chance you might actually damage a windmill enough to do something, even if the original goal was a complete delusion.
Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately LLMs are pretty inconsistent in how they use em dashes. Often they will put spaces around them despite that not being "correct," something that's led me astray in making accusations of humanity in the past.
Depends on the style guide you’re following, apparently: The AP style guide says space around them[0]. Chicago Manual of Style says not to[1]. 0: https://www.prdaily.com/dashes-hyphens-ap-style/ 1: https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/H...
There’s also the difference between the conventional EU/UK style (spaced en-dash) vs. the common US style (unspaced em-dash).
Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"
#245So they trained LLM's on a bunch of junk and then notice that it got worse? I don't understand how that's a surprising, or even interesting result?
They also tried to heal the damage, to partial avail. Besides, it's science: you need to test your hypotheses empirically. Also, to draw attention to the issue among researchers, performing a study and sharing your results is possibly the best way.
Yeah I mean I get that, but surely we have research like this already. "Garbage in, garbage out" is basically the catchphrase of the entire ml field. I guess the contribution here is that "brainrot"-like text is garbage which, even though it seems obvious, does warrant scientific investigation. But then that's what the paper should focus on. Not that "LLMs can get 'brain rot'".
I guess I don't actually have an issue with this research paper existing, but I do have an issue with its clickbait-y title that gets it a bunch of attention, even though the actual research is really not that interesting.
Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is indeed an LLM-written sentence — not only does it employ an em dash, but also lists objects in a series — twice within the same sentence — typical LLM behavior that renders its output conspicuous, obvious, and readily apparent to HN readers.
I think this article has already made the rounds here, but I still think about it. I love using em dashes! It really makes me sad that I need to avoid them now to sound human https://bassi.li/articles/i-miss-using-em-dashes
I’ve stopped using em dashes in my writing in fear it will be dismissed at LLM generated :/
Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"
#247“Studying “Brain Rot” for LLMs isn’t just a catchy metaphor—it reframes data curation as cognitive hygiene for AI, guiding how we source, filter, and maintain training corpora so deployed systems stay sharp, reliable, and aligned over time.” An LLM-written line if I’ve ever seen one. Looks like the authors have their own brainrot to contend with.
That is indeed an LLM-written sentence — not only does it employ an em dash, but also lists objects in a series — twice within the same sentence — typical LLM behavior that renders its output conspicuous, obvious, and readily apparent to HN readers.
I've been doing that for decades. See for example https://www.mail-archive.com/kragen-tol@canonical.org/msg000...:
> Many programming languages provide an exception facility that terminates subroutines without warning; although they usually provide a way to run cleanup code during the propagation of the exception (finally in Java and Python, unwind-protect in Common Lisp, dynamic-wind in Scheme, local variable destructors in C++), this facility tends to have problems of its own --- if cleanup code run from it raises an exception, one exception or the other, or both, will be lost, and the rest of the cleanup code at that level will fail to run.
I wasn't using Unicode em dashes at the time but TeX em dashes, but I did switch pretty early on.
You can easily find human writers employing em dashes and comma-separated lists over several centuries.
Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately LLMs are pretty inconsistent in how they use em dashes. Often they will put spaces around them despite that not being "correct," something that's led me astray in making accusations of humanity in the past.
Depends on the style guide you’re following, apparently: The AP style guide says space around them[0]. Chicago Manual of Style says not to[1]. 0: https://www.prdaily.com/dashes-hyphens-ap-style/ 1: https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/H...
Thank you! I usually use THIN SPACE on each side of my em dashes (Compose Space Minus in https://github.com/kragen/xcompose ), but on HN that gets bashed to a regular space.
Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same here. I recently learned it was an LLM thing, and I've been using them forever. Also relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45226150
> I’ve been using them forever. Many other HN contributors have, too. Here’s the pre-ChatGPT em dash leaderboard: https://www.gally.net/miscellaneous/hn-em-dash-user-leaderbo...
Thank you for this! Apparently I'm #4 by total em-dash uses, #14 by average em dashes per comment, and #4 at max em dashes per comment, since apparently I posted a comment containing 18 em dashes once.
Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I’ve been using them forever. Many other HN contributors have, too. Here’s the pre-ChatGPT em dash leaderboard: https://www.gally.net/miscellaneous/hn-em-dash-user-leaderbo...
i suspect it’s a trait of programmers, we like control flow type things. i used to find myself nesting parenthesis…
Also we like text (maybe not as an inherent thing but as a selection bias) and we're more likely to have customized our keyboard setup than random people off the street.