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Amazon’s Ring to partner with Flock

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Re: Amazon’s Ring to partner with Flock

#241

Post by pear01 »

bpt3 wrote: post #220
hitarpetar wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just to make this explicit, protecting civilians has never been the purpose of modern police forces. they were developed to put down rebellions/catch slaves/protect rich people's property

Just to make this explicit, you are incorrect. There are plenty of instances where you would be correct, such as the origin of police forces in the American South (which were initially slave patrols), but that doesn't mean you are correct in all instances. I'm not sure what joy you derive from spreading misinformation, but you should probably reconsider it.

Funny to accuse someone of "spreading misinformation" while agreeing there are instances where they are correct, then asserting there are some instances where they are incorrect while giving no concrete examples yourself.

So saying something that is correct but not for all cases (which ones would those be) is now "spreading misinformation"?

I'm not sure what joy you derive from dismissing statements you already acknowledge have an element of veracity with some blanket label of "misinformation", but you should probably reconsider it.

Re: Amazon’s Ring to partner with Flock

#242

Post by troyvit »

gilfoy wrote: post #105
agigao wrote: post #85

This is why I never bought anything Amazon owned, other than Kindles; and I have dropped the latter, too. I was always suspicious of Ring and never understood the people using it.

My entire neighborhood came with ring doorbells pre installed and eero routers. I swapped out to the Logitech doorbell which I like better anyway

So like it just came with the houses as they were built? If that's the case I wonder what kind of deal Ring make with the builders of new neighborhoods.

Re: Amazon’s Ring to partner with Flock

#244

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

nerdponx wrote: post #77
shrubble wrote: post #43

When you take this info and combine it with the ability of Wifi7 routers to "see" where people are in their house, you realize that the recent demo of Anduril's helmet that gives an information display that the soldier/cop wearing it can use to "see who is in the house" or "see around corners" etc. is not sci-fi but instead, something they can do today.

Pros: potentially greater safety for police and EMS when dealing with touchy people, obvious benefits for fire rescue (assuming it works in a fire). Cons: use your imagination.

I got hit by a car in a hit and run, and despite there being dozens of cameras, and me getting the footage of the car hitting me and driving off (not clear shot on license plate), the police immediately called it a cold case and refused to even try to get footage from any other cameras nearby - so I'll hold my breath that they use this for anything to prevent crime.

Re: Amazon’s Ring to partner with Flock

#246

Post by Aurornis »

noja wrote: post #203
Aurornis wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you take this info and combine it with the ability of Wifi7 routers to "see" where people are in their house, WiFi routers can’t tell you where people are in the house. The routers don’t even know their own location within the house. All of those papers you see on the topic have extensive additional information being put into their models. The routers don’t magically know the layout of your house. At most, a W…

So combine it with a plan made from a social media posting.

Floor plan isn’t enough for a location model. These have to be learned in from accurately tagged data combined with measurements taken at the precise time of the tagged location data. A lot of tagged data.

You’re not going from a floor plan to a precise location model. Just think about how different the WiFi environment would be if someone put their router next to their steel computer case versus someone setting it on a nice MDF cabinet with no wires nearby. Completely different RF environment and pathing.

Re: Amazon’s Ring to partner with Flock

#248

Post by msie »

Almondsetat wrote: post #180
Aurornis wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you take this info and combine it with the ability of Wifi7 routers to "see" where people are in their house, WiFi routers can’t tell you where people are in the house. The routers don’t even know their own location within the house. All of those papers you see on the topic have extensive additional information being put into their models. The routers don’t magically know the layout of your house. At most, a W…

The police has access to the planimetry of your home. Secondly, if they get close enough they can measure the distance between the agent and the router, and then deduce all the relative distances from the router to the people inside.

Police won't even check the address before they raid a place, so I don't think so.

Re: Amazon’s Ring to partner with Flock

#249

Post by matt_heimer »

Aurornis wrote: post #134
shrubble wrote: post #43

When you take this info and combine it with the ability of Wifi7 routers to "see" where people are in their house, you realize that the recent demo of Anduril's helmet that gives an information display that the soldier/cop wearing it can use to "see who is in the house" or "see around corners" etc. is not sci-fi but instead, something they can do today.

> When you take this info and combine it with the ability of Wifi7 routers to "see" where people are in their house, WiFi routers can’t tell you where people are in the house. The routers don’t even know their own location within the house. All of those papers you see on the topic have extensive additional information being put into their models. The routers don’t magically know the layout of your house. At most, a W…

Not just social media postings but past real estate listings can probably provide floor plans.

And if you don't have those, a lot of buildings have common patterns. Its very much in the realm of possibility to train a model using exterior and interior information so that you could have AI generate a floor plan using only exterior data.

Combine that with a small drone that could fly around a building and take different wifi signal readings to triangulate access point positions.

Once you have all that don't you have everything you need to detect movement in the building based on signal disruptions?

Yes, seems like a bit of work but it absolutely seems like the type of effort some governments would put effort into.

Re: Amazon’s Ring to partner with Flock

#250

Post by Aurornis »

mothballed wrote: post #206
Aurornis wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sci-fi fantasy mixed with paranoia. The floor plan of every home is not on file, especially older homes. Police aren’t accessing your floor plan and then accessing your router and combining these into a perfect model that maps people’s locations. Where in this supposed plan are the police deducing the location of your WiFi router in the house and constructing a model of all materials and objects in the house…

They could easily find it for most people. It is generally public record, in my county it's available online, unless the individual built the home themselves (mine isn't on file because I opted out of building codes and planning, but commercial home builders can't do that here). But let's be real, police constantly barge in to the wrong address, looking for people that have been gone for years, accomplishing not much…

A floor plan is not equivalent to a complete RF characterization of an environment. Ignore the floor plan comments because they don’t enable WiFi positioning.

Think through it: Does your floor plan contain info about the precise location of your WiFi devices and any obstructions between them? Even that isn’t enough to get a WiFi location model, but it’s not in there regardless.

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