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Apple Vision Pro upgraded with M5 chip

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Re: Apple Vision Pro upgraded with M5 chip

#241

Post by 0x457 »

specialist wrote: post #190
lynndotpy wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and it's one of the best headsets for Linux :) But this is a tethered headset and the text rendering isn't good enough to justify one over a monitor (reportedly-- I haven't bought one yet). Especially because it's tethered. But Valve is reliably rumored to be releasing an untethered successor within the next year for a third of the cost of the AVP. The appeal is having a dozen monitors anywhere.

IIRC, Apple M4's 10-core GPU supports three 6K 60mhz displays. Enough for each eye and 1 virtual desktop. Vision Pro M5 PR says something about 120mhz. So the M5's "40% faster GPUs" is being used to double the frame rate? Being noob, I'm guessing each desktop requires 3 additional cores and 16Gb VRAM. Of course, we can think of many strategies (using current hardware) to support additional desktops, spaces, windows,…

Apple SoCs have weird external monitor support purely because of SoC IO, not GPU power.

60mhz and 120mhz are your typos, because that's an insane refresh rate. It's 60Hz and 120Hz, not mhz...

> So the M5's "40% faster GPUs" is being used to double the frame rate?

You always have to read full marketing BS when you read it, it almost always says "X times faster than Y in Z workfload".

Re: Apple Vision Pro upgraded with M5 chip

#242

Post by phillipseamore »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #180
cjoelrun wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar. I use this as a traveling external monitor. I have a face that works well without the face seal and with the old dual band: Counter weighted with the back of my head in a way that floats the headset over my nose/face. Going back to squeezing this onto my face like the old knit band seems like it would go backwards in comfort. How can anyone have this pressed against their face for 8+ hours?

The best is to have a pulley system above your head that removes the weight of it from above. I’d like to see someone implement this via a backpack / should strap for mobile use.

Designed for cameras but probably works for testing the concept without any modifications: https://easyrig.se/

Re: Apple Vision Pro upgraded with M5 chip

#243

Post by 0x457 »

fennecfoxy wrote: post #115
DennisP wrote: post #23

I was super interested in the Vision Pro when it was first released. Then I found out they went with an app model and the device could only display a single MacOS window. There went my dream of surrounding myself with a bunch of vim windows and terminals. If they'd focused on maximizing the device's usefulness instead of its revenue stream, maybe things would have worked out better.

Another comment mentions how useful it is because it's integrated with Apple's ecosystem. I mean of course it is...Apple makes it. I do wonder if that person had ever tried any of the myriad of VR device available a decade before beforehand and I do wonder how popular Apple's product would be if other companies were given the opportunity to integrate with the OS on the same level that Apple can (I feel like Apple is…

> I do wonder if that person had ever tried any of the myriad of VR device available a decade before beforehand and I do wonder how popular Apple's product would be if other companies were given the opportunity to integrate with the OS on the same level that Apple can

Microsoft had and still has this opportunity, they even have game console and much of game developers to bootstrap VR/AR ecosystem.

> (I feel like Apple is breaking anti-competitive laws constantly but nobody really cares about making them open up).

lol okay

Re: Apple Vision Pro upgraded with M5 chip

#244

Post by jayd16 »

dialup_sounds wrote: post #215
jayd16 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be specific? You think they can't cram in enough cameras and a lidar? The see through display is the elephant in the room and it's actually progressing.

Um, okay. Specifically, glasses don't try to do any kind of gaze tracking, gesture recognition, spacial awareness, any kind of 3d, depth, or immersion. You could add more cameras and lidar for depth, yes, but then you'd also need a display for the other eye, and you still wouldn't be able to do immersion because your displays are transparent and have a tiny FOV, and you're also not doing passthrough, so why do you ne…

The XReal and Magic leap glasses have some of those things. Hololens had it before that. There's not a dream device yet but its clearly the north star for those and the Meta devices.

Re: Apple Vision Pro upgraded with M5 chip

#245

Post by jayd16 »

throwaway7679 wrote: post #205
alt227 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? This problem has already been solved and is just a case of miniturisation which history has shown the industry can do very quickly. 5 Years and there will not be a 'headset' on sale anymore. It will all be normal sized glasses.

There are several gaps in capability between headsets and glasses, which cannot be filled by any existing technology. For example, consider field of view, which is a critical measurement of these displays. Typical specs are 120 degrees for headsets, 40 for glasses. Headsets also perform very high performance rendering compared to glasses. The tiny Glasses can't be expected to compete with headsets, much less eliminat…

This is like saying a Gameboy and a Playstation are completely unrelated. Sure they have their niche but there is massive overlap as well.

Re: Apple Vision Pro upgraded with M5 chip

#246

Post by vid »

DennisP wrote: post #23

I was super interested in the Vision Pro when it was first released. Then I found out they went with an app model and the device could only display a single MacOS window. There went my dream of surrounding myself with a bunch of vim windows and terminals. If they'd focused on maximizing the device's usefulness instead of its revenue stream, maybe things would have worked out better.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think emulating a physical screen in a virtual field of view is the wrong way to do this. Why introduce off-axis viewing and all the other unnecessary weirdnesses? What if the entire field of view were the screen, with head and eye movement as navigation? I guess make the windows transparent so it's less disorienting, and it would at least initially be overwhelming, but past that it could be quite transformative.

Re: Apple Vision Pro upgraded with M5 chip

#247

Post by crazygringo »

bluescrn wrote: post #212

Still an external battery? If it's going to be tethered to a battery, why not just tether it to a Mac (or iPhone) instead, and make the device a lot cheaper+simpler in the process?

Because those batteries are busy powering their respective devices?

Re: Apple Vision Pro upgraded with M5 chip

#248

Post by cubefox »

api wrote: post #41
cubefox wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of which, Apple could probably support Mac apps on modern iPhones if you plug it into an external monitor. I assume they aren't doing it because it would cannibalize their laptop market.

It would also be slow, not because the chip is slow but because if you do serious things with it it’s going to thermal throttle. Laptops have way better heat dissipation. Most people put phones in cases which makes heat dissipation much worse.

Modern iPhones can even run modern games like Resident Evil 4 Remake from battery. Which suggests thermal throttle won't be a problem for most ordinary Mac applications.

Re: Apple Vision Pro upgraded with M5 chip

#250

Post by Geee »

stetrain wrote: post #210
Geee wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's true, it's the stupidest thing they've ever done. To start competing in a product category invented by Eric Schmidt and Mark Zuckerberg. This might be the final point on the story of how Tim Cook destroyed Apple. Eyeglasses with a HUD is the stupidest product category ever invented, and that's why no one wants them, which has been proven again and again in the marketplace.

I think it's pretty clear that the whole point of the Vision Pro is that Apple wants to build AR glasses but the technology was not ready yet. I do think it makes some sense to attack the problem from both directions, but hopefully they aren't fully ditching the full immersive headset development to do it.

It's fundamentally a different product. Vision Pro is about pushing boundaries in productivity and entertainment. It's the step above desktop computers or game consoles with large displays. You wear this device like headphones, when you want to jump into work or game.

Eyeglasses with HUD is like Apple Watch but on your face, i.e. it's focus is on mobility, not productivity or immersion. You're supposed to wear this device all the time.

Even if we had the technology the run these devices in the same form factor (maybe in 100 years), I bet that most people prefer to keep their face and eyes tech free in mobile or social situations. For the same reasons as why it's polite to put your phone away when interacting with people. Wearing this kind of device means that they're not fully present at any time. It also signals that they're a person who wants notifications constantly blasted on their face - i.e. an idiot.

I don't actually believe that they have ditched the plans for the next version.

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