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UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

petition.parliament.uk

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Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#241

Post by mulmen »

raesene9 wrote: post #235
mulmen wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that the lack of digital ID prevents anything it’s that the digital ID makes abuse even easier .

Possibly, although they don't seem very slowed down at the moment... My feeling is though that digital ID can have benefits which shouldn't be discounted when considering it. Specifically some people have problems with current age verification due to lack of things like passports and driver's licenses which are often used as stand-ins for digital ID. Also it can make a lot of very nonsensical processes better. Things…

Is there something about digital IDs that make them easier to issue than passports? I understand what you are saying that they could have benefits but is that an inherent problem with passports or just bureaucracy?

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#242

Post by teamonkey »

cortic wrote: post #148
teamonkey wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot be arrested for sending “any message online that anyone could find insulting or offensive”. That’s not what the law says. You can be arrested for spreading hate speech, inciting violence, sending illegal media or harassment online. All of the arrests mentioned in this thread in relation to these acts have been campaigns of intimidation, harassment and calls to violence, not simply saying something “insulti…

>In the UK political expression of free speech is protected by the ECHR, which overrides both those acts This is categorically untrue. Not only is the ECHR worded specifically to allow individual countries to curtail free speech ("any law, deemed by the local democratically elected government as ; necessary in a democratic society, and for a legitimate aim"), but parliament always had sovereignty to pass into law exe…

Yes, this is why the government needed to label Palestine Action as a terrorist organisation. It needed special measures because it did not in fact have the authority to arrest protestors, even though some people found what they were saying offensive.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#243

Post by 71bw »

reorder9695 wrote: post #89
skeletal88 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

The UK government has justified this with reducing the amount of illegal workers. To work legally currently you need an NI number, this is not an improvement on that system other than requiring everyone to have a phone (probably with safetynet checks to ensure it can't be running a custom rom). I personally do not trust the government one little bit and am sure they'll find some way to abuse this, as they have just a…

>probably with safetynet checks to ensure it can't be running a custom rom

And they can, forgive me for my rather vulgar language, fuck right off with this thinking. Problem is it will still go into place, because for most people giving up the right of being able to govern their own device that they paid for is not a problem for whatever reason. Neither will it be until it touches something that is important to them - that's when, hopefully, some more people will be able to see that we are rapidly spiralling downwards toward a complete techno-authoritarian dystopia.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#244

Post by dazc »

hchdifnfbgbf wrote: post #116
dazc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The likelihood that it will become tied to your bank account, credit file, etc in a way which isn't currently possible with physical forms of id such as passports and driving licences.

How isn’t that currently possible? In America, your bank is already required to keep a semi-permanent record of your state issued identification for anti-money laundering/terrorism financing reasons. I can see concerns about it becoming a widely used form of SSO, potentially even mandated, and that destroying privacy. However, banks and credit are cases where you already do not have that privacy, so they don’t seem l…

In the UK, your bank will have a copy of your id to prove they carried out basic id checks - it currently ends there.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#245

Post by dazc »

tikkabhuna wrote: post #156
dazc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The likelihood that it will become tied to your bank account, credit file, etc in a way which isn't currently possible with physical forms of id such as passports and driving licences.

I’m pretty sure UK security services can link bank accounts to you already. Hell, credit score companies like Experian already do it. This is beneficial for public services and companies that need to identify you. Having a single ID for a person is a huge improvement. As an example, when we got married, my wife was simultaneously both her maiden name and my surname. There is absolutely no link between passport, birth…

Some may say this strengthens individual privacy and the inconvenience is a price worth paying.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#246

Post by 71bw »

stephen_g wrote: post #209
gslepak wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. It depends on the country and its relationship with the people. If the people trust that their government represents the people's interests, there is little push-back. In countries where citizens have reason to believe their government is hijacked by interests that do not have their best interests at heart, then every…

Wow, crazy seeing the "15 minute city" conspiracy theory on HN! For those who haven't seen it, the idea of 15 minute cities is that a lot of people think it would be great to structure development of cities with the ideal of a person being able to access most of the services they want to (workplaces, schools, supermarkets, doctors) within 15 minutes (whether walking, cycling, using public transit etc.) of where they…

No conspiracy is needed to observe the current world, the state of political affairs and to notice where all of it is headed.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#247

Post by yaro330 »

SXX wrote: post #218
skeletal88 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

Russia also have very good digital services. Now in one go government can send you conscription notification and immediately block your from leaving country as well as revoke driver license, block your banks and even phone numbers. Also since all the data available about you in one place any malicious actor who can bribe someone with access can immediately get all your data: passport info and tax id, addresses, work…

As if this wasn't possible before digital ID was introduced. The only difference was that you got a conscription notice after you tried to leave and realised that you can't.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#248

Post by SXX »

yaro330 wrote: post #247
SXX wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia also have very good digital services. Now in one go government can send you conscription notification and immediately block your from leaving country as well as revoke driver license, block your banks and even phone numbers. Also since all the data available about you in one place any malicious actor who can bribe someone with access can immediately get all your data: passport info and tax id, addresses, work…

As if this wasn't possible before digital ID was introduced. The only difference was that you got a conscription notice after you tried to leave and realised that you can't.

Blocking all the banks and everything? Nope it wasn't possible. You need to build a lot of tech first to implement digital Gulag.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#249

Post by ksec »

Slightly Off Topic, the whole petition site is running on Ruby Rails.

On the Topic, If Digital ID is required, what could we do to limit the scope of it to absolute minimum? Or do we have a way to have digital services from Tax, Driver Licences etc without some form of Digital ID. Or could we have Government Services System SSO without Digital ID?

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#250

Post by tpm »

SXX wrote: post #218
skeletal88 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

Russia also have very good digital services. Now in one go government can send you conscription notification and immediately block your from leaving country as well as revoke driver license, block your banks and even phone numbers. Also since all the data available about you in one place any malicious actor who can bribe someone with access can immediately get all your data: passport info and tax id, addresses, work…

> Also since all the data available about you in one place

Note that having a 'Digital ID' and 'all the data available about you in one place' are two completely different things. You can have a electronic ID system and separated specialized systems. In fact I think Germany is going in this direction, also giving the citizens the ability to request deletion of all information held about them in a particular system.

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