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I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

simonhartcher.com

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Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#241

Post by hbn »

heavyset_go wrote: post #231
didacusc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that the macOS desktop is vastly inferior to Linux desktops is absolutely nuts. I've tried to get my relatives on Linux desktops so many times, just for it to go completely wrong a couple of weeks after and having to reinstall Windows. It's just not made for average (or below-average) users, so I don't see how it can be VASTLY inferior to something as easy and polished as macOS.

What are your relatives doing? If they're like 95% of computer users, they use them to check their email, their FB/IG/etc and browse the web. A Chromebook would suit their needs, but in my experience, so would a modern Linux installation + a browser. The biggest friction in my experience is UI differences, but that is solved by just mimicking Windows/macOS UI in KDE. Put buttons and components where they expect to fi…

You can also just tell them to get an M2 MacBook Air for $800. You'll have to do near zero troubleshooting, it'll last them the better part of a decade, they get unmatched battery life and hardware reliability, and if they do run into issues they'll have top-of-its-class support from Apple.

I know Linux guys don't mind putting up with the Linux experience but if your family is trusting you as "the techie," you'd be doing them a huge favor by not making them put up with that stuff.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#242

Post by ben-schaaf »

heavyset_go wrote: post #213
mort96 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does it keep its charge in sleep mode? Weeks or days?

System76 edits firmware to enable S3 sleep on their machines. S3 sleep uses less power than Modern Standby.

I've heard this isn't possible on AMD unfortunately.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#243

Post by [deleted] »

hackyhacky wrote: post #240
jeffbee wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you can’t hibernate (aka suspend to disk) you will never be able to get that power consumption low. This is cope. An Apple Silicon Macbook does not need to suspend to block devices to save energy (they only do this when the battery is empty). ChromeOS doesn't offer hibernate at all. The only reason that a Framework can't have good battery life in an operating state is that nobody is paying attention to the detai…

Correct. I've got a ThinkPad T480s. Hibernation is disabled, but suspend works great. Keeps charge for at least a week. Running recent Debian. I think that Lenovo, for all their faults, just does better with Linux than Framework.

[deleted]

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#244

Post by abhinavk »

aurareturn wrote: post #52
corndoge wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Frameworks are generally more expensive than Macs, sometimes 50% - 100% more expensive for a similar laptop. Do you have an example? An 8tb m4 macbook pro runs over 7 grand; the comparable hx370 framework 13 is barely over 3 grand. I bought both within the last couple months and found the macs to be significantly more expensive in the segment i was looking at.

You can buy an M4 Air for $799 on sale frequently.[0] Meanwhile, a similar spec'ed Framework with a slower AMD CPU/GPU is $1,517.00.[1] So the repairability angle just doesn't seem worth it. If the Air breaks, just buy a new one. Keep in mind that the M4 Air has a better display, significantly faster CPU, faster GPU, significantly more battery life, is fanless, better speakers, much better trackpad, and a thinner pro…

It is mostly valid for 16GB/256GB-SSD config and when you need performance in bursts. Consider sustained performance, more RAM, more storage, OS options etc and the value proposition changes.

I have maintained it for years that the base model M-series Air is the best computer for normal people if they plan to keep it for years.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#245

Post by ben-schaaf »

hspak wrote: post #110
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #31

As suggested in the blog post, the battery life issue is complex. You do need a CPU/SoC that’s efficient, and while Intel and AMD can do this it’s traditionally been a struggle for them. Next, the OS needs to be capable of taking full advantage of the chip’s efficiency. Windows could be decent here in, but Microsoft doesn’t believe in an operating system that’s ever truly idle (and neither do the third parties living…

My Thinkpad X1 Carbon (gen 5) running linux can suspend for weeks without dying. There was definitely a window where battery life under suspending wasn't a huge problem in Linux, not sure what happened. I also have a Framework 13 (11th gen intel) which has terrible suspend battery life (also loses 2-3%/hour like the newer AMD version)– I was hoping that the AMD chips would fare better, but it seems not.

That ThinkPad has S3 sleep support, unlike modern laptops.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#246

Post by heavyset_go »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #242
heavyset_go wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

System76 edits firmware to enable S3 sleep on their machines. S3 sleep uses less power than Modern Standby.

I've heard this isn't possible on AMD unfortunately.

I'm on an AMD machine that System76 wrote the firmware for, and they specifically wrote in S3 sleep functionality despite the base firmware missing it.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#247

Post by noisy_boy »

red369 wrote: post #176
Zak wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you're popping in and out expansion cards all the time eventually the ports are going to fail If you're plugging and unplugging USB-C cables all the time, eventually the ports are going to fail, but we generally consider plugging things into USB-C acceptable. The Framework expansion modules are just USB-C ports, but they're not subject to much twisting or bending when using the modules so they should last longer…

Even if the internal USB-C ports which the expansion cards plug into fail, which to me also seems like a long time away, the mainboard is designed to be replaceable so I think you'd be in a better position than with another laptop with a failed power plug. There are also clips that hold the expansion cards in place. My HDMI one started coming out when I unplug the cable even from really early on, even without pressin…

> there is no way they can send anything to the maritime capital of the world

That just blows my mind. Not shipping to one of the richest and tech savvy countries in the world which happens to be less than 5 hours away from Framework's assembly base Taiwan.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#248

Post by mixmastamyk »

isametry wrote: post #222
whatarethembits wrote: post #43

Battery life is the only thing stopping me from getting out of the Apple ecosystem. As soon as a viable Linux laptop with "enough" battery life becomes available, I'll make the switch. At that point there's nothing on Apple side that couldn't be done better in Linux (with a bit of work, but that's okay). I travel a lot, and often on standby for work during that time. I need to be confident that when I pull the laptop…

When you say "Apple's dominance", are you referring to a potential dominance? Because in terms of actual dominance, Apple is far from that in laptops. Lenovo, HP and Dell each sell more laptops than Apple, and those three alone make up 60% of the market. https://www.industryresearch.biz/market-reports/mobile-compu...

Dominance in power efficiency perhaps.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#249

Post by deepsun »

rv3392 wrote: post #197
mort96 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does it keep its charge in sleep mode? Weeks or days?

I believe they mean it lasts 14+ hours in sleep.

No, in work mode. I'd keep using it if not for the keyboard (kept messing PgUp/Left and PgDown/Right).

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#250

Post by noisy_boy »

hk1337 wrote: post #143

I love the Framework hardware but not all that impressed with the choice of operating systems that are available. That’s not really Framework’s problem though.

What does that mean? I thought they offer Windows and Linux options? If you are referring to distros of the latter, you can install whichever you like, no?
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