Java 25 officially released • Hacker News Board

Re: Java 25 officially released

#241

Post by eastbound » Thu, Sep 18, 2025, 11:15 AM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #211

eastbound wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all failed when .stream() appeared. Why make people use .stream() for functional programming, plus streams aren’t even reusable, I almost wish they invented a new operator based on an exotic UTF-8 character than those 9 extra characters. Fonts should have a ligature for .stream(). And now let’s talk about .collect(toList())… And records which look like ugly beans… Java is the land of the verbose. But it can probab…

Nobody complains about the Rust turbo-fish operator which is pretty verbose too. Java has already has introduced a direct toList()/toArray() anyways. let v = (1..5).collect:: >(); // Cool Rust

Streams should be built in collections, not a .stream().map(…).toList() convolution. In know its incompatible with weird frameworks who already overloaded the .map() method, but well… let them recompile.

That was in 2008, we’d be happy by now; and Java had no qualms asking everyone to change the package names from javax’ to jakartax’ in Java 21, so they should have issued a java.collections package and deprecated the lists i java.utils.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#242

Post by lolive » Thu, Sep 18, 2025, 11:45 AM UTC

aw1621107 wrote: post #224

lolive wrote: post #223

Whoever criticises Java in the modern world will have to answer to this: if your IDE of choice does not provide a safe « Extract method » capability, then your langage largely sucks.

> if your IDE of choice does not provide a safe « Extract method » capability, then your langage largely sucks. Why is that a language problem as opposed to an IDE problem?

The IDE is basically applying static code analysis methods to "understand" the code structure. Something that works extremely well in Java, reasonably well in Typescript, and seems quite shaky in other languages.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#243

Post by aw1621107 » Thu, Sep 18, 2025, 1:06 PM UTC

lolive wrote: post #242

aw1621107 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if your IDE of choice does not provide a safe « Extract method » capability, then your langage largely sucks. Why is that a language problem as opposed to an IDE problem?

The IDE is basically applying static code analysis methods to "understand" the code structure. Something that works extremely well in Java, reasonably well in Typescript, and seems quite shaky in other languages.

Fair point. Still think that that sole criterion is a bit arbitrary to judge a language on, but different needs for different people, etc., etc.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#244

Post by aw1621107 » Thu, Sep 18, 2025, 1:07 PM UTC

zbentley wrote: post #237

aw1621107 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if your IDE of choice does not provide a safe « Extract method » capability, then your langage largely sucks. Why is that a language problem as opposed to an IDE problem?

When it’s Ruby or another language that uses metaprogramming to the point of complete obscurity to tools and humans.

Fair point. Looks like some IDEs can provide some kind of extract functionality, but can't say I have had enough experience with them to say how reliable it is.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#245

Post by samus » Thu, Sep 18, 2025, 1:18 PM UTC

mike_hearn wrote: post #240

lenkite wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of languages like Python, NodeJS, C++, even Perl have commercial support offerings.

OK but not from the creators of the languages themselves, I think? The point remains though that it's the same situation. There's a free open source implementation and some companies that offer paid support.

Pretty sure you can get support from Microsoft or other vendors for their C++ compilers.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#246

Post by StopDisinfo910 » Thu, Sep 18, 2025, 2:00 PM UTC

mike_hearn wrote: post #191

Foomf wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Am I using the correct language runtime distribution (or version thereof) so I don't get into legal trouble?" Is a question none of Java's competitors have to ask. Even using OpenJDK is a sword of damocles waiting to fall. If I forget to update OpenJDK, Oracle could come after me. It's just risk that I don't have to worry about by choosing not to go with Java. It's probably not a lot of risk, but it's risk nonethele…

That's because none of Java's competitors have commercial support offerings to begin with, as far as I know? It's the same situation as with Linux. Red Hat Enterprise Linux isn't free. But it'd be weird if you said you're afraid of using Linux because the licensing is too complicated.

Cloud providers do if you run your program on their platforms. That’s not exactly what you want but that covers a significant part of the market.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#247

Post by mike_hearn » Thu, Sep 18, 2025, 3:49 PM UTC

samus wrote: post #245

mike_hearn wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK but not from the creators of the languages themselves, I think? The point remains though that it's the same situation. There's a free open source implementation and some companies that offer paid support.

Pretty sure you can get support from Microsoft or other vendors for their C++ compilers.

Microsoft aren't the creators of C++.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#248

Post by lolive » Thu, Sep 18, 2025, 5:36 PM UTC

aw1621107 wrote: post #244

zbentley wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it’s Ruby or another language that uses metaprogramming to the point of complete obscurity to tools and humans.

Fair point. Looks like some IDEs can provide some kind of extract functionality, but can't say I have had enough experience with them to say how reliable it is.

In Java, it is platinium level.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#249

Post by lenkite » Thu, Sep 18, 2025, 7:39 PM UTC

brunoborges wrote: post #219

lenkite wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just go to https://openjdk.org/ and click on the "download" link. Or use your OS package manager and install openjdk. Problem solved. Just like any other software, you know ?

That download link takes you to jdk.java.net, which hosts OpenJDK builds built by Oracle.

I don't get it, what is wrong with that ? Those are OpenJDK binaries and also explicitly named as such not Oracle JDK binaries.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#250

Post by lenkite » Thu, Sep 18, 2025, 7:46 PM UTC

mike_hearn wrote: post #240

lenkite wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of languages like Python, NodeJS, C++, even Perl have commercial support offerings.

OK but not from the creators of the languages themselves, I think? The point remains though that it's the same situation. There's a free open source implementation and some companies that offer paid support.

Dotnet has commercial support from Microsoft. They are C# inventors.

(Also to needlessly quibble, technically James Gosling under Sun Micro-systems invented Java)