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Will AI be the basis of many future industrial fortunes, or a net loser?

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Re: Will AI be the basis of many future industrial fortunes, or a net loser?

#241

Post by bee_rider »

KPGv2 wrote: post #57
benoau wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep this is a huge enabler - previously having someone "do art" could easily cost you thousands for a small game, a month even, and this heavily constrained what you could make and locked you into what you had planned and how much you had planned. With AI if you want 2x or 5x or 10x as much art, audio etc it's an incremental cost if any, you can explore ideas, you can throw art out, pivot in new directions.

> With AI if you want 2x or 5x or 10x as much art Imagery AI does not produce art. Not that it matters to anyone but artists and art enjoyers.

I don’t see this as a claim that the AI is doing art. He’s just saying, that the art can be created at low incremental cost.

Like, if we were in a world where only pens existed, and somebody was pitching the pencil, they could say “With a pencil if you want 2x or 5x or 10x as many edits, it's an incremental cost, you can explore ideas and make changes without throwing the whole drawing away.”

Re: Will AI be the basis of many future industrial fortunes, or a net loser?

#242

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

ileonichwiesz wrote: post #166
XenophileJKO wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you value self expression? I literally mean creating music for MYSELF. I don't really care if anyone else "values" it. I like to listen to it and I enjoy spending an evening(or maybe 10 minutes if it is just a silly idea) to create a song. But this means my incentive to "buy" music is greatly decreased. This is the trend I think we'll see increasing in the near future. Examples: https://suno.com/s/0gnj4aGD4jgVcpqs…

I do value self expression, that’s why I play multiple instruments, paint, draw, sculpt. I don’t really see how prompting a machine to make music for you is self expression, even if it’s to your exact specifications.

The "self" part clearly implies that someone else's self expression is under no obligation to be the same as your self expression.

Re: Will AI be the basis of many future industrial fortunes, or a net loser?

#243

Post by trinsic2 »

nostrademons wrote: post #236
dghlsakjg wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds in awful lot like a cousin of the broken window fallacy. The fallacy being that when a careless kid breaks a window of a store, that we should celebrate because the glazier now has been paid to come out and do a job. Economic activity has increased by one measure! Should we go around breaking windows? Of course not.

It very much is a cousin of the broken window fallacy. Bastiat's original point of the Parable of the Broken Window could be summed up by the aphorism "not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts". It's a caution to society to avoid relying too much on metrics, and to realize that sometimes positive metrics obscure actual negative outcomes in society. It's very similar to…

Very thought out reply on the nuances around this. Thanks for generating insight on this topic.

I think our society is being broken by focusing too much on metrics.

Also the idea of breaking windows to generate more income reminds me of the kind of services we have in modern society. It's like many of the larger encomic players focus on "things be broke", or "Breaking Things" to drive income which defeats the purpose of having a healthy economic society.

Re: Will AI be the basis of many future industrial fortunes, or a net loser?

#245

Post by lotsofpulp »

pydry wrote: post #183
ACCount37 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like there's market for hand-made, artisanal spoons and forks. Is it a large market though?

It'd be larger if wealth inequality werent so staggeringly high. The first automated-server restaurants (Horn and hardart) appeared in the 1930s during the depression. They were popular because they were cheap. Far from being the wave of the future, they went out of business in the 1950s when people started having disposable income. Part of the reason we accept slop, impersonal service and mass produced crud is not b…

I have doubts on the quality and how automated a 1930s restaurant could have been.

Re: Will AI be the basis of many future industrial fortunes, or a net loser?

#246

Post by ben_w »

gloxkiqcza wrote: post #235
nostrademons wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that it's replacing one form of activity with a cheaper one, it's that it removes the transaction . Which means that now there's nothing to tax, and nothing to measure. As far as GDP is concerned, economic activity will have gone down, even though the same work is being accomplished differently.

If more value is being created more efficiently, in the end it’s just a question of coming up with taxation system designed for the new economy.

Government gets x% of your processor time?

Re: Will AI be the basis of many future industrial fortunes, or a net loser?

#247

Post by hackable_sand »

iamacyborg wrote: post #129
Waterluvian wrote: post #17

I think the interesting idea with “AI” is that it seems to significantly reduce barriers to entry in many domains. I haven’t seen a company convincingly demonstrate that this affects them at all. Lots of fluff but nothing compelling. But I have seen many examples by individuals, including myself. For years I’ve loved poking at video game dev for fun. The main problem has always been art assets. I’m terrible at art an…

> It reminds me of what GarageBand or iMovie and YouTube and such did for making music and videos so accessible to people who didn’t go to school for any of that, let alone owned complex equipment or expensive licenses to Adobe Thisandthat. It’s worth reading William Deresiewicz‘ The Death of the Artist. I’m not entirely convinced that marketing that everyone can create art/games/whatever is actually a net positive r…

I make a rap album because anybody can

My contribution to this scam

Re: Will AI be the basis of many future industrial fortunes, or a net loser?

#248

Post by mallowdram »

Waterluvian wrote: post #17

I think the interesting idea with “AI” is that it seems to significantly reduce barriers to entry in many domains. I haven’t seen a company convincingly demonstrate that this affects them at all. Lots of fluff but nothing compelling. But I have seen many examples by individuals, including myself. For years I’ve loved poking at video game dev for fun. The main problem has always been art assets. I’m terrible at art an…

The genericizing of aesthetics is far more cost than benefit. This is a completely false claim: "reducing barriers to entry" if the barrier includes the progression of creativity. Once the addict of AI becomes entranced to genericized assets, it deforms the cost-benefit.

If we take high-level creativity and deform, really horizontalize the forms, they have a much higher cost, as experience become generic.

AI was a complete failure of imagination.

Re: Will AI be the basis of many future industrial fortunes, or a net loser?

#249

Post by trinsic2 »

jostylr wrote: post #203
XenophileJKO wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you value self expression? I literally mean creating music for MYSELF. I don't really care if anyone else "values" it. I like to listen to it and I enjoy spending an evening(or maybe 10 minutes if it is just a silly idea) to create a song. But this means my incentive to "buy" music is greatly decreased. This is the trend I think we'll see increasing in the near future. Examples: https://suno.com/s/0gnj4aGD4jgVcpqs…

I agree that this is a very likely future. Over the summer, I did a daily challenge in July to have ChatGPT generate a debate with itself based on various prompts of mine [1]. As part of that, I thought it would be funny to have popular songs reskinned in a parody fashion. So it generated lyrics as well. Then I went to suno and had it make the music to go with the lyrics in a style I thought suitable. This is the pla…

Thanks for posting this. I listen to this YouTube Channel called Futurescapes. I think the YouTuber generates sci-fi futuristic soundscapes that help me relax and focus. Im a bit hesitant about AI right now, but I can see some of the benefits like this. It's a good point. We shouldn't be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Re: Will AI be the basis of many future industrial fortunes, or a net loser?

#250

Post by mallowdram »

trinsic2 wrote: post #243
nostrademons wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It very much is a cousin of the broken window fallacy. Bastiat's original point of the Parable of the Broken Window could be summed up by the aphorism "not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts". It's a caution to society to avoid relying too much on metrics, and to realize that sometimes positive metrics obscure actual negative outcomes in society. It's very similar to…

Very thought out reply on the nuances around this. Thanks for generating insight on this topic. I think our society is being broken by focusing too much on metrics. Also the idea of breaking windows to generate more income reminds me of the kind of services we have in modern society. It's like many of the larger encomic players focus on "things be broke", or "Breaking Things" to drive income which defeats the purpose…

These are mistaken arguments. The automation of imagination is not imagination. Efficiency at this stage is total entropy. The point of AI is to make anything seemingly specific and render it arbitrary to the point of pure generalization (which is generic). Remember that images only appear to be specific, that's their illusion that CS took for granted. There appears to be links between images in the absent, but that is an illusion too. There is no total, virtual camera. We need human action-syntax to make the arbitrary (what eventually renders AI infantile, entropic) seem chaotic (imagination). These chasms can never be gapped in AI. These are the limits.
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