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How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

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Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#241
post #43

As an American who drove for 20 years before obtaining a license in the UK, I can offer some observations. First, driving in the UK is much more a privilege than a right as in the US. You can live a complete life in the UK without a license because of the wide availability of public transit. In the US however, if you want to maintain a steady job outside of NYC, Chicago, DC, Boston or perhaps a few others, you'll hav…

I think universal vehicle inspections alone would massively cut down on a significant amount of accidents, especially in Michigan. The number of people I see driving in 6” of snow with bald tires, grinding brakes, and blown out suspension is really concerning.

It would just lead to people driving unlicensed vehicles.

People driving around in dangerous vehicles aren't doing it for fun, they are doing it to get to work, go shopping and otherwise live their lives with limited resources.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#242

The hazard perception test was a great addition in my opinion. (Basically a video plays and you have to press a button when something dangerous has happened). I passed my driving test 30+ years ago and then took the HPT as part of a motorcycle test 15 years later. Paying attention (to the kid bouncing a ball at the side of the road, to the cyclist when it's windy weather etc) is a key part of road craft and I hope th…

Actually this is wrong, it's what everyone thinks, but when you take the hazard perception test, if you press a button when you perceive a hazard, you will fail. What actually happens is there are 5 points available per hazard. You have to press the button five times, evenly spaced throughout the due of the hazard, but not starting earlier than the test setters deem appropriate, or you will drop points. It's one of the most bizarrely implemented tests, and needs serious practice to get its arbitrary rules right.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50-60 is fine on that road, indeed given the traffic and sight lines it’s far better than the majority of roads, far safer than 20 in a typical town. That you think 15mph is appropiate tells me you need to hand back your license.

This is again a problem of familiarity, or perhaps of naïveté. Roads can have hard to spot potholes, particularly slightly rough roads like that, and people might not be comfortable zipping along them without the knowledge of that.

Far fewer potholes on that than on a typical two lane 60mph road. Not that it’s hard to spot potholes at 60mph.

Familiarity shouldn’t come into it, you should be able to see the road is clear. That road has brilliant sight lines, you can see anything larger than a rabbit from 20 seconds away, far safer Doug 69 along there than 40 along many country roads which aren’t single track, let alone doing 30 in towns.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50-60 is fine on that road, indeed given the traffic and sight lines it’s far better than the majority of roads, far safer than 20 in a typical town. That you think 15mph is appropiate tells me you need to hand back your license.

> 50-60 is fine on that road, indeed given the traffic and sight lines it’s far better than the majority of roads, Well, given its current speed limit is 60mi/h and its current situation, both in terms of road safety and use by vulnerable road users, is abysmal, I think it's safe to safe you're incorrect. A competent driver should be able to navigate that road at 60 or 80 km/h if it was a closed or private road, but…

Total nonsense, the problem int got road is people speeding. Ie doing 80, 90, 100, and people doing g 69 when the limits do decrease.

You should stick to trains and buses. You do 20mph along there and quite rightly the police would have your license.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#245
I think one of the things not mention, is to simply have less driving. That helps a lot. Move more people onto buses, trains, bikes and walking.

In shared spaces, the more alternatives you have the more the car has to adjust to that reality and that tends to slow down cars.

And even more importantly, politically measures like 'slowing down cars' is much easier to pass if people have alternatives.

Here in Switzerland we are just fighting against the Right Wing Transport Minister who wants to make 50km mandatory in every city (but they are anti-regulation of course).

Secondly, I think these numbers only really look good, in light of them having been so horrible bad before. So much more could be done. There are 100s of streets that should simply be pedestrianized, both for economic reason and for safety reasons.

There is lots of good research going on in Netherlands, Finland, Norway and so on. In Oslo for example, they have reduced the cars in the city to a point where I was often simply walking on the street (sadly partly by moving cars underground). Sweden in Stockholm implemented congestion pricing.

Another thing not addressed here, is to keep cars light. The chance of death is much less with a smaller lower profile car. Charge higher registration and road fees to larger cars. Create maximum sizes for all public parking spots and harsh fines is somebody parks their dumb F-150 there. More can be done along those lines as well.

Narrow roads and use safer configuration. For example, never have a 4-lane road. A 3 lane where the middle is a turning lane, has the same threw-put and is safer. In general, preventing any kind of overtaking improves flow and safety.

There are so many more things that can be done. The goal has to be not just less people killed, but also less property damage and other kinds of negative effect. Zero is the acceptable number.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you get the two wheeled side of the fence. You can do a one day compulsory basic training course and convince a trainer you know what you're doing, then drive on the road with everyone on a 125cc motorcycle (or 50cc at 16 years old), and then repeat the CBT every two years to keep on the road. It's only if you go for the full license that you need to study for theory as a prerequisite, so long as you keep out of…

You make it sound like motorbike riders are practically unregulated, but in a sense it's the opposite. A few decades ago, 125cc bikes were mostly for learners practising before taking their test. But successive governments have made it harder and harder to get a full license - so loads of riders just stay on learner bikes forever. So the status quo is, in a sense, the result of very strict regulation.

The regulation I want for motorbikes is less noise. Its absolutely absurd what is allowed in most places. And if you modify the bike to make more noise you should never be allowed to drive again.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#247

Our driving test standards are also high, having spoken with US colleagues, much higher than state-side (although I imagine that varies from state to state). The theory test you must pass before taking your practical also now includes a hazard perception test - you are shown multiple videos and must click when you first perceive a hazard - the earlier you click after the hazard presents the higher your score - but if…

This is probably a huge factor for sure. Both the UK theory and practical tests are somewhat tricky, at least compared to those in places like the US. Many people will fail them the first time around, and a fair few will fail them multiple times.

The official statistics have a rate of about 40-60% for these tests:

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/driving-...

Though it definitely varies by area:

https://www.gocompare.com/motoring/reports-statistics/drivin...

It's closer to a school exam in terms of difficulty, rather than the quick drive around a parking lot that it seems a lot of places have.

So people seem a lot more prepared than in many other places, since they actually have to be able to spot hazards and do driving maneuvers to get their license in the first place.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How is the Read trial relevant here? The conduct of the law enforcement professionals and people they associate with leading up to the events relevant to the trail is relevant to a discussion of how seriously they take DUI.

OK, how about this: how would someone who knows nothing about you other than your 2 comments here determine whether you think MA police take DUI seriously enough or whether you think they go too easy on DUI? Read did drive under the influence and police and prosecutors laid harsh charges against her, but they could've laid those harsh charges (first- and second-degree murder IIRC) against her even if she had been sto…

Clearly the cops themselves have no problem with themselves and people in their social circles casually drinking and driving.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#249
I moved from Germany (Cologne) to London recently and I am surprised to read that UK has safer roads than Germany. I have not yet driven in London - but I have driven in Germany and I have bicycled in both countries. London is hands down terrifying to me. Certain kinds of drivers (eg: vans) seem deliberately hostile to cyclists, and plenty of people park in a cycling lane. Never seen that happen in Germany with such frequency. Also, roads are bumpier - what’s with that?!

Now, cyclists in London are a driver’s nightmare. I’ve seen people barrel down a junction at full speed and jump a red light. This lack of desire for self-preservation is startingly common.

Between the hostile vans and the daredevil red-light-jumping cyclists, I am baffled at this report. Perhaps mortality rates are low, but injury rates are much higher than say, Germany?

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California it's more than showing up (although I think none of the tests are particularly rigorous). Minors must: - Complete a 30 hour driver's education course and 6 hours of driver's training - Pass a knowledge test with 80% or more questions answered correctly - Apply for and receive an instruction permit - Maintain the permit for 6+ months - Drive with an 25+ year old adult supervising for at least 50 hours (i…

Your CA adults requirements do not match what I experienced in 2005, aside from passing the knowledge test. Maybe that's changed a lot in 20 years.

It also doesn't match what I experienced in 2015, though having a foreign driver's license may have skipped some of the requirements (though they never actually asked for for it when getting my provisional license, they might have just assumed?), the actual testing felt like a joke compared to the equivalent in the UK.
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