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I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

michael.stapelberg.ch

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Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#241

Post by sippeangelo »

jml7c5 wrote: post #225
c0l0 wrote: post #65

I realize this has not much to do with CPU choice per se, but I'm still gonna leave this recommendation here for people who like to build PCs to get stuff done with :) Since I've been able to afford it and the market has had them available, I've been buying desktop systems with proper ECC support. I've been chasing flimsy but very annoying stability problems (some, of course, due to overclocking during my younger yea…

The big problem with ECC for me is that the sticks are so much more expensive. You'd expect ECC UDIMMs to have a price premium of just over 12.5% (because there are 9 chips instead of 8), but it's usually at least 100%. I don't mind paying reasonable premium for ECC, but paying double is too hard to swallow.

Yeah, with that kind of markup you might as well just buy new ones IF they break, or just spend the extra budget on better quality parts. Just having to pick a very specific motherboard that probably is very much not optimal for your build will blow the costs up even more, and for what gain?

I've been building my own gaming and productivity rigs for 20 years and I don't think memory has ever been a problem. Maybe survivorship bias, but surely even budget parts aren't THIS bad.

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#243

Post by lmm »

sippeangelo wrote: post #241
jml7c5 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problem with ECC for me is that the sticks are so much more expensive. You'd expect ECC UDIMMs to have a price premium of just over 12.5% (because there are 9 chips instead of 8), but it's usually at least 100%. I don't mind paying reasonable premium for ECC, but paying double is too hard to swallow.

Yeah, with that kind of markup you might as well just buy new ones IF they break, or just spend the extra budget on better quality parts. Just having to pick a very specific motherboard that probably is very much not optimal for your build will blow the costs up even more, and for what gain? I've been building my own gaming and productivity rigs for 20 years and I don't think memory has ever been a problem. Maybe sur…

> with that kind of markup you might as well just buy new ones IF they break

Assuming you can tell, and assuming you don't end up silently corrupting your data before then.

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#244

Post by rubin55 »

formerly_proven wrote: post #43

> Looking at my energy meter statistics, I usually ended up at about 9.x kWh per day for a two-person household, cooking with induction. > After switching my PC from Intel to AMD, I end up at 10-11 kWh per day. It's kind of impressive to increase household electricity consumption by 10% by just switching one CPU.

I run a 13900T unlocked (meaning, it runs 35W TDP at idle, 1.1ghz, but is allowed to peak to 210W for up to a minute, with the hugest Noctua D14something I could fit on it). It runs at ~29c idle, peaks to 80ish celsius at 210W (~4.5ghz over all cores - songle core peaking to 5.3ghz).

For a time I ran it 24/7 without suspend. It's a big system, lots of disks, expansion cards, etc. If it doesn't suspend, and doesn't do anything remarkable, it uses about ~5kWh per day. Needless to say, it suspends after 60 minutes now (my daily energy usage went from ~9 to ~4 kWh).

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#245

Post by lmm »

willtemperley wrote: post #133
williamDafoe wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Stronghold" is a joke phrase, is it not? Intel had ZERO progress in integrated graphics from 2013-2020. ZERO. That's the reason why "it works so well" - because they NEVER improved the performance or architecture! Sure, they diddled with the number of CU's, but as far as graphics architecture, they never changed it, and it was POOR to begin with (couldn't do 1080p esports very well ...)

Are x86 consoles a joke?

Consoles have very little lock-in on their architectural choices, since they only ever support a small set of hardware configurations in the first place. I guess some of the current generation are x86-based but it would be very easy to move to ARM for the next generation if they wanted to.

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#246

Post by imiric »

hedora wrote: post #182
imiric wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had the same experience with an 8600G on Linux. Very frequent graphics driver crashes and KDE/Wayland freezes, on old and new kernels alike. I've been submitting error reports for months, and the issues still persist. The RAM passes MemTest, and the system otherwise works fine, but the graphics issues are very annoying. It's not like I'm gaming or doing anything intensive either; it happens during plain desktop…

Check dmesg after the driver crashes and restarts. If the crash is something about a ringbuffer timeout, use dmidecode to see what the ram is actually clocked at. Make sure it matches the min of the actual spec of the ram that you bought and what the CPU can do. I used to get crashes like you are describing on a similar machine. The crashes are in the GPU firmware, making debugging a bit of a crap shoot. If you can r…

Hhmm I did underclock the RAM to 4800 MHz, since running it at the stock 6400 MHz would overheat the system (it's a mini PC) and cause artifacting. And, practically, I don't need higher frequencies, since I'm using the machine as an HTPC and for casual desktop use. In fact, from what I've read, high frequencies can introduce stability issues on these APUs, which is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

But I'll play around with this and the timings, and check if there's a BIOS update that addresses this. Though I still think that AMD's drivers and firmware should be robust enough to support any RAM configuration (within reason), so it would be a problem for them to resolve regardless.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#247

Post by enronmusk »

Dunedan wrote: post #231
enronmusk wrote: post #119

If OP's CPU cooler (Noctua NH-D15 G2) wasn't able to cool down his CPU below 100C, he must have been (intentionally or unintentionally with Asus multi core enhancement) overclocked his CPU. Or he didn't apply thermal paste properly or didn't remove the cooler plastic sticker? I have followed his blog for years and hold him in high respect so I am surprised he has done that and expected stability at 100C regardless of…

> […] so I am surprised he has done that and expected stability at 100C regardless of what Intel claim is okay. Intel specifies a max operating temperature of 105°C for the 285K [1]. Also modern CPUs aren't supposed to die when run with inadequate cooling, but instead clock down to stay within their thermal envelope. [1]: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/241060/...

Yes, I have read the article and I agree Intel should be shamed (and even sued) for inaccurate statements. But it doesn't change the fact it has never been a good idea to run desktop processors at their throttling temperature -- it's not good for performance, it's not good for longevity and stability, and it's also terrible for efficiency (performance per watt).

Anyway, OP's cooler should be able to cool down 250W CPUs below 100C. He must have done something wrong for this to not happen. That's my point -- the motherboard likely overclocked the CPU and he failed to properly cool it down or set a power limit (PL1/PL2). He could have easily avoided all this trouble.

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#248

Post by InMice »

etempleton wrote: post #118
microtonal wrote: post #2

I feel like both Intel and AMD are not doing great in the desktop CPU stability department. I made a machine with a Ryzen 9900X a while back and it had the issue that it would freeze when idling. A few years before I had a 5950X that would regularly crash under load (luckily it was a prebuilt, so it was ultimately fixed). When you do not have a bunch of components ready to swap out it is also really hard to debug the…

My experience is similar. Modern enthusiast CPUs and hardware compatibility is going backwards. I have a 5900x that randomly crashes on idle, but not under load. My 285K has so far been rock solid and generally feels snappier. I feel like both Intel and AMD are really trying to push the envelope to look good on benchmarks and this is the end result.

Have you tried using powerprofilesctl to change the power profile to 'performance' instead of 'balanced' or 'power saver'? I think this would prevent the lowest idle states at least. Just a guesss, never had this problem myself.

My modern CPU problems are DDR5 and the pre-boot timing thing never completing. So a build of a 9700x that I did that WAS supposed to be located remotely from me has to sit in my office and have its hand held thru every reboot cuz you never know quite know when its doing to decide it needs to retime and randomly never come back. Requires pulling the plug from the back and waiting a few minutes then powering back, then waiting 30 minutes for 64gb of ddr5 to do its timing thing.

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#249

Post by InMice »

protocolture wrote: post #156
microtonal wrote: post #2

I feel like both Intel and AMD are not doing great in the desktop CPU stability department. I made a machine with a Ryzen 9900X a while back and it had the issue that it would freeze when idling. A few years before I had a 5950X that would regularly crash under load (luckily it was a prebuilt, so it was ultimately fixed). When you do not have a bunch of components ready to swap out it is also really hard to debug the…

>I made a machine with a Ryzen 9900X a while back and it had the issue that it would freeze when idling I also have this issue.

You could try using powerprofilesctl to change the mode from 'balanced' or 'power saver' to 'performance' since i think this may prevent the cpu from ever entering the throttled down low idle states that your freezing happens in. they are controlled with powerprofilesctl. You may also be able to add some flugs to grub config file. assuming you are using linux i guess.

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#250

Post by enronmusk »

magicalhippo wrote: post #224
enronmusk wrote: post #119

If OP's CPU cooler (Noctua NH-D15 G2) wasn't able to cool down his CPU below 100C, he must have been (intentionally or unintentionally with Asus multi core enhancement) overclocked his CPU. Or he didn't apply thermal paste properly or didn't remove the cooler plastic sticker? I have followed his blog for years and hold him in high respect so I am surprised he has done that and expected stability at 100C regardless of…

He did have the Fractal Define 7 Compact case, and the pictures[1] only show a single 140mm case fan. From personal experience the Fractal Define cases are great at sound reduction due to the thermal padding, but those pads also insulates well. Given the motherboard and RAM will also generate quite some heat, if the case fan profile was conservative (he does mention he likes low noise), could be the insides got quite…

Excellent point. A single case fan is highly atypical and concerning.

I also have a fractal define case with anti noise padding material and dust filters, but my temperatures are great and the computer is almost inaudible even when compiling code for hours with -j $(nproc). And my fans and cooler are much cheaper than his.

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