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996

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Re: 996

#241

Post by voidfunc »

graemep wrote: post #205
whstl wrote: post #177

996 is just theater for investors. Saw this happening even at YC companies. There was always that stupid expectation of overworking, staying until 9. The reality is that people twiddle thumbs. And the disorganization and micromanagement power plays are enough to negate any additional worked hour. This ranges from pure disorganization in terms of what to build to having 3 hour meetings with the whole fucking company w…

> 996 is just theater for investors. Investors who have not heard of the research into productivity that says long hours have no significant benefit for skilled work? Who have not heard of diminishing returns? Who have no experience of the reality of working long hours themselves?

Theres a lot of very dumb investors.

Re: 996

#242

Post by mystraline »

benoau wrote: post #154
mystraline wrote: post #38

I found out that it was a very limited wavier in Chinese law that permitted a few companies to do 996 (or 9am to 9pm 6 days a week, or 72 hour workweeks). Now, I'm seeing US companies demand that here. Like, hell no. My body and health isn't worth what you're paying, and the answer 996'ers aren't paying double, or even 1.5x the position. Saner parts of the world are discussing 37.5h/weeks, and even going to 4 day wor…

There was a HN /jobs post a week ago for "100% in-person, 6 days per week" lol. No thanks!

Oh, I remember that as well, but its been removed from Sept 2025 who's hiring. Should have screenshotted it, but instead had a near spit-take.

It was a US robotics company that worked closely with Chinese robotics. Bragging about 996.

I'm suspecting the HN admins removed it cause it looked really bad. And we know that founders here have special capabilities.

Re: 996

#243

Post by Sharlin »

r_lee wrote: post #167
Aurornis wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because for at least half of the 72-hour workweek, most employee will mentally checkout (in Chinese we call this 摸鱼). The CEO of one of my employers was smitten with his new China office because they bragged about operating 996. To everyone else, it was obvious that they weren’t working more. They were just at the office a lot, or coming and going frequently. When they’d send a video from the office (product demos)…

It's sad how a lot of things in life now are all about optics. And it's shocking that it works for leadership/management so well

To executives, responding to communication is equal to working because communication is all that they do. Same reason that so much time is wasted on meetings: for the people who organize meetings they are what work is, rather than wasted time.

Re: 996

#244

Post by drob518 »

ibejoeb wrote: post #153
drob518 wrote: post #95

Having worked at several startups, I’ll say that 996 is a lie. The best startups were ones that worked HARD for 8 to 10 hours, 5 days per week. What I always found at companies “working” 996 (or something close) was that mostly everyone was hanging out in the break room playing foosball or video games (or watching someone else do it). Sure, they were “in the office,” but the productivity of those hours beyond 8 was r…

If you're doing R&D and you're actually into the problem, you're probably devoting the majority of your waking hours to "working" regardless. This is a different 996 than stitching shoe welts 996. Hanging around and passively considering the problem with others can be good, productive work. If someone who actually like this kind of thing freely enters into it, well, best of luck to you. I think the shouting "996" thi…

Yea, sometimes you need to take a break and walk outside for a bit, noodling on an issue. I get it. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about people hanging around the office to be seen at the office.

Re: 996

#245

Post by ford »

I've never understood the risk trade-off for early stage employees (Employees ~4 through ~10-20).

At this stage equity packages are often But the odds of success are still quite low - In venture funded companies I think it's wrong to say that at That being said - I get working hard if you're appropriately rewarded for it. Just less so if it's primarily on behalf of someone else.

Re: 996

#246

Post by djha-skin »

My favorite paragraph:

> I’ve pulled many all-nighters, and I’ve enjoyed them. I still do. But they’re enjoyable in the right context, for the right reasons, and when that is a completely personal choice, not the basis of company culture.

Re: 996

#247

Post by CuriouslyC »

edoceo wrote: post #232
CuriouslyC wrote: post #137

I'm currently running 10,2,7 because I'm on fire and need to get the things in my head out into the world, but the idea that I would expect anyone I was working with to pull that kind of weight is just insanity. I sit down and the day flies by as I build foundational software, but that's my passion, my quest. I would only expect that sort of intensity from a collaborator asking for a 50/50 split.

Does 10,2,7 mean 10:00h-14:00h seven days a week?

no, I go till 2 am pretty much daily. Not a general endorsement or a statement of how hard I can grind, it's actually pretty easy because what I'm doing is very fulfilling right now.

Re: 996

#248

Post by zkmon »

Back in 1999 in SF, at the peak of dotcom boom, a few startups located down South from the Market street would shutter down their entrances after around dinner time. All people still inside, working over night. I had two of my friends (actually colleagues - we were from a consulting firm) working at those places. It became a norm around that place and youngsters loved that kind of all-nighters.

The new year eve of millennium Dec 31, 1999 - we went to Fishermans's wharf, roamed around and then went back to work at 1 am. No Y2K issues.

Re: 996

#249

Post by eastbound »

criddell wrote: post #200

If you are working 9-9 x 6 to build a $10 billion company, why not double your head count and halve the hours? If you build that mega unicorn, there will be plenty of money to share and still have more than you will ever need. Or do the 996 thing and try not to think too much about your Alzheimer’s and heart disease filled future. Maybe leave a big gift to the hospital that takes care of you before you die at way too…

I know you’re showing the absurdity of the rest, but:

> why not double your head count and halve the hours?

Because of friction: Not only you need much more HR to hire double the workforce, but people require double the attention, and then a subgroup will invent a sidequest etc.

In most of IT, large famous software were often built by 30 people. That’s valid for Netscape/Firefox, Internet Explorer, Jira, etc.

The best software, like Git, Javascript or Linux, were initially written by 1 person.

Re: 996

#250

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

Startup, n. A social group characterized by excessive devotion to a charismatic authoritarian leader, a strong shared vision, and a distinct identity with unique language and symbols. Exerts strong control over its members' lives, often using psychological manipulation to create dedication, compliance, and isolation from external influences.

"You Should Run Your Startup Like a Cult", by Peter Thiel (https://www.wired.com/2014/09/run-startup-like-cult-heres/) (https://archive.is/h7iZl) (2014)

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