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I ditched Docker for Podman

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Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#241

Post by ramon156 »

awoimbee wrote: post #220

The main issue is podman support on Ubuntu. Ubuntu ships outdated podman versions that don't work out of the box. So I use podman v5, GitHub actions uses podman v3, and my coworkers on Ubuntu use docker. So now my script must work with old podman, recent podman and docker

One of the reasons I don't use Ubuntu/debian is because it's just too damn slow with updates. I'm noticing that to this day it's still an issue.

Yes I could use flatpack on ubuntu, however I feel like this is partly something Ubuntu/Debian should provide out-of-the-box

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#242

Post by mdaniel »

gr4vityWall wrote: post #169

I wonder if we'll see Podman running on Illumos at some point. SmartOS does currently support running Dockerized programs if I remember correctly.

Only if Illumos supports kernel namespaces; it's the same problem as "podman on XNU" (I don't mean via VM, I mean on XNU): there's nothing stopping them, but it evidently isn't important to them, either

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#243

Post by reaperducer »

nickjj wrote: post #67
akerl_ wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn’t generally the cost, it’s the complexity. You end up having to track who has it installed. Hired 5 more people this week? How many of them will want docker desktop? Oh, we’ve maxed the licenses we bought? Time to re-open the procurement process and amend the purchase order.

A large company who is buying licenses for tools has to deal with this for many different things. Docker is not unique here. An IT department for a company of that size should have ironed out workflows and automated ways to keep tabs on who has what and who needs what. They may also be under various compliance requirements that expect due diligence to happen every quarter to make sure everything is legit from a licen…

An IT department for a company of that size should have ironed out workflows

The business world is full of things that "should" be a certain way, but aren't.

For the technology world, double the number.

We'd all like to live in some magical imaginary HN "should" world, but none of us do. We all work in companies that are flawed, and sometimes those flaws get in the way of our work.

If you've never run into this, buy a lottery ticket.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#244

Post by rsyring »

sspiff wrote: post #214

I've been on Podman for about two years now. My coworkers and the entire company codebase / scripts etc are on Docker. Podman has a number of caveats that make it not a drop in replacement out of the box, but they are mostly few and far between. Once you've learned to recognize a handful of common issues, it's quite simple to migrate. This might sound like me trying to explain away some of the shortcomings of podman,…

Do you have a summary of those most common issues and their workarounds?

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#245

Post by reaperducer »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #195
nickjj wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large company who is buying licenses for tools has to deal with this for many different things. Docker is not unique here. An IT department for a company of that size should have ironed out workflows and automated ways to keep tabs on who has what and who needs what. They may also be under various compliance requirements that expect due diligence to happen every quarter to make sure everything is legit from a licen…

It becomes a pain point when the IT team never heard of docker, all new licenses need to be approved by the legal department, and your manager is afraid to ask for any extra budget. Also, I don't want to have to troubleshoot why the docker daemon isn't running every time I need it

It becomes a pain point when the IT team never heard of docker

Or when your IT department is prohibited from purchasing anything that doesn't come from Microsoft or CDW.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#246

Post by troyvit »

nickjj wrote: post #46
t43562 wrote: post #21

To provide 1 contrary opinion to all the others saying they have a problem: Podman rocks for me! I find docker hard to use and full of pitfalls and podman isn't any worse. On the plus side, any company I work for doesn't have to worry about licences. Win win!

> On the plus side, any company I work for doesn't have to worry about licences. Win win! Was this a deal breaker for any company? I ask because the Docker Desktop paid license requirement is quite reasonable. If you have less than 250 employees and make less than $10 million in annual revenue it's free. If you have a dev team of 10 people and are extremely profitable to where you need licenses you'd end up paying $9…

> I ask because the Docker Desktop paid license requirement is quite reasonable. If you have less than 250 employees and make less than $10 million in annual revenue it's free.

It is for now, but I can't think of a player as large as Docker that hasn't pulled the rug out from under deals like this. And for good reason, that deal is probably a loss leader and if they want to continue they need to convert those free customers into paying.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#247

Post by adolph »

smokel wrote: post #147
nickjj wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the plus side, any company I work for doesn't have to worry about licences. Win win! Was this a deal breaker for any company? I ask because the Docker Desktop paid license requirement is quite reasonable. If you have less than 250 employees and make less than $10 million in annual revenue it's free. If you have a dev team of 10 people and are extremely profitable to where you need licenses you'd end up paying $9…

Reading through the comments here, it looks like there is an opportunity for a startup to streamline software licensing. Just a free tip.

Yeah, at a big enterprise the larger challenge ahead of even payment is the legal arrangements. They typically sign some "master license" agreement with an aggregator like CDW. Those places don't seem well set up for software redistribution though. Setting up a Steam or AppStore clone for various utility-ware would go a long way to enabling people to access the software an enterprise doesn't mind paying for if the legal and financial stuff wasn't applying friction.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#248

Post by reaperducer »

stronglikedan wrote: post #146
nickjj wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large company who is buying licenses for tools has to deal with this for many different things. Docker is not unique here. An IT department for a company of that size should have ironed out workflows and automated ways to keep tabs on who has what and who needs what. They may also be under various compliance requirements that expect due diligence to happen every quarter to make sure everything is legit from a licen…

Or just use Podman and don't worry about licenses, since it's just as good but sooo much easier.

Some day I hope to work for a company small enough that I can "just" use any software I feel like for whatever reasons I want.

But I have to feed my family.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#249

Post by miki123211 »

I've been dealing with setting up Podman for work over the last week or so, and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

If you use rootless Podman on a Redhat-derived distribution (which means Selinux), along with a non-root user in your container itself, you're in for a world of pain.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#250

Post by rsyring »

idoubtit wrote: post #59

I also ditched docker when I could. In my experience... Podman with pods is a better experience than docker-compose. It's easy to interactively create a pod and add containers to it. The containers ports will behave as if they were on the same machine. Then `podman generate kube` and you have a yaml file that you can run with `podman kube play`. Rootless networking is very slow unless you install `passt`. With Debian…

> Rootless networking is very slow

I came across just how slow recently:

- Container -> host: 0.398 Gbps vs. 42.2 Gbps

- host -> container: 20.6 Gbps vs 47.4 Gbps

Source: https://github.com/containerd/nerdctl/blob/main/docs/rootles...

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