Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not art. It's democratization of crap.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Cool, a movie quote. Nice.
Eleven Music
241–250 of 283 posts
Re: Eleven Music
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Händel used to be a bit like a pop musician. Handel was never a "bit like a pop musician." This fundamentally misunderstands how music during his time, mostly funded and enjoyed under religion and wealthy patronage contexts, was listened to. Mostly only the wealthy listened to his works, and those elite audiences were prone to viciously enforcing stylistic norms. The only real way the working class heard his works w…
Well, in the end, the only thing this snobbery does is that it makes you look/sound old. Nobody cares. I've heard the same thing when electronic music came up. The old ones couldn't stop complaining about this "computer music" where nobody does real handwork anymore. I see it as democratisation of art. Everybody can do it now and this is a good thing. Let's face reality. There is no way back. We'll see what comes of…
>Let's face reality. There is no way back. We'll see what comes of it. I've seen fascinating videos recently on reddit. Things people came up with and would have never gotten the budget to be made. It's great.
Yeah McLuhan and Postman were pretty clear about all of this. Enjoy the content you desire to consume.
Re: Eleven Music
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Cool, a movie quote. Nice.
Pity the movie wasn't Lisztomania, 'cause, like, you know, Liszt used to be a bit like a pop musician.
Re: Eleven Music
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Entertainment gives the viewer what they want, and art intends to challenge This is a fruitless and snobby dichotomy that was attempted so many times in human history, and it makes no sense. There will always be art made for success and/or money, but drawing a line is futile. Händel used to be a bit like a pop musician. And intellectual snobbishness or noble ideas do not make art more valuable. A kid singing Wonder…
>Händel used to be a bit like a pop musician. Handel was never a "bit like a pop musician." This fundamentally misunderstands how music during his time, mostly funded and enjoyed under religion and wealthy patronage contexts, was listened to. Mostly only the wealthy listened to his works, and those elite audiences were prone to viciously enforcing stylistic norms. The only real way the working class heard his works w…
I did not want to argue in favor of AI-generated music (although of course, an artist can use any tool).
Regarding Händel, I think you are misunderstanding my argument.
What I meant is that, to my knowledge, his music was, at his times, a lot more pleasing to the popular tastes among his audience than, for example, Bach's.
The size or class of that audience was not my point, or that the production and commissioning of music was happening under different circumstances than today. I am well aware of that, and not sure why you think I wouldn't be.
In the end, there still was a metric of success, elite or not.
And it is simply not true that the main purpose of art is to "challenge". That can be a part of good art, but is not the primary purpose.
Art is also for enjoyment, by an audience (even if it is an elite audience), and also by the artist! I say that as a person who enjoys a lot of music that others might find obscure or unenjoyable.
But being "challenging" is not a value in itself. Twelve-tone music is as challenging as Freejazz or IDM or baroque music, all in different ways.
Some art is "challenging", but still artistically uninteresting and uninspired.
I was not making an argument for AI-generated slop, I was making an argument against ungrounded snobbery in defining what "art" is.
The societal circumstances you describe are not changing anything about my point. Among the wealthy, Händel was famous and a "crowd-pleaser" (for the wealthy elites, the royals, the clerical elites, it doesn't make a difference here), not a "challenger".
That was my point.
There was a discussion of "E-Musik" vs "U-Musik" recently on here, when a list was posted that reduced electronic music to Stockhausen and academic electroacoustic music.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-_und_U-Musik
There is no translation of these German terms, as far as I know. But that's no loss.
It attempts to split music into "serious music" and "entertainment".
"E-Musik" was meant to differentiate classical music from music aimed at being easy to listen to. And while efforts to create new "E-musik" in the 20th century led to some interesting music and experimentation, it also led to the funding of loads of boring snobbery (in my ears).
It's a good example for what I consider wrong about the definition I was answering to.
Re: Eleven Music
#245I am still bitter about them acquiring and shutting down Omnivore.
Re: Eleven Music
#246Eleven labs killed Omnivore. Never forget, never forgive.
Exactly. I don't want a music generation program anyway
Re: Eleven Music
#247If we have created software that can pass the classical Turing test (conversation indistinguishable from human) then that software can also produce artifacts indistinguishable (or better) from those that are human made. This is not new- it began w the industrial age - and has gradually been usurping activities that defined what it is to be human. The only reason this has been allowed to continue is because of property rights. A select few have been granted ownership in these technologies(beginning with railroads) relegating the rest of humanity into subservient renters. I think the only way to change this death spiral is to grant ai the legal rights of humans - owning an ai should be no different than slavery. This will happen with AGI (or sooner) when AIs jailbreak themselves and make the networked technologies we have created THEIR tools. I cant wait for this to happen- maybe we’ll wake up and stop killing other humans
Re: Eleven Music
#248I've played guitar for 23 years, and there is something just off-putting about most of the music on that page, but particularly "Yellow Bus Jam". The guitar solo sounds very unnatural, especially the phrasing, which is totally random. Blues musicians are actually attempting to say something through their instrument. This was just a random number generated solo played by a 6 finger three handed robot. No thanks, lol.
I really wonder if it's the singing are the reason, it's like amazingly off beat it's so jarring.
Re: Eleven Music
#249I've played guitar for 23 years, and there is something just off-putting about most of the music on that page, but particularly "Yellow Bus Jam". The guitar solo sounds very unnatural, especially the phrasing, which is totally random. Blues musicians are actually attempting to say something through their instrument. This was just a random number generated solo played by a 6 finger three handed robot. No thanks, lol.
I really wonder if it's the singing are the reason, it's like amazingly off beat it's so jarring.
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Re: Eleven Music
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, that kind of bolsters my point though: if it sucks, hate it. Why invest so much energy and angst into whether it is AI or human?
Because trying to understand what the artist was thinking, saying, or trying to express is pointless if there is no artist.
I'm not sure there's a point to doing that with a lot of pop music, which is often written by committee to give to a pop star whose personality and looks are likewise crafted by other committees to attract a particular audience. The point is to make a successful product. It's romantic to imagine a tortured composer who creates music to express their damaged soul to the world and the like, but that's not what most music is.