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Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

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Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#241

Post by reactordev »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #240
reactordev wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s as if it’s taught in business school or something, how to throw colleagues under the bus. I’ve seen it at every large corporation except for one. My take on why not ui? though is because they are so busy trying to justify saving their own skins. How could they possibly look outward into the future when they’re busy recreating lord of the flies?

>It’s as if it’s taught in business school or something, how to throw colleagues under the bus. You're overreaching. Business school doesn't need to teach that, that's just human nature being driven by greed and survival of the fittest, the base blocks of capitalism.

I refuse to believe that. I’ve seen completely normal humans treat each other with respect in the workplace, using data for decision making and accepting the data. It doesn’t have to be King of the Hill.

If I see an org start playing squid games, I’m out. I don’t care how much money I lose or what. I’m out.

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#243

Post by pjmlp »

steve1977 wrote: post #236
pjmlp wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, from his latest interview, he mentioned working on Linux on Azure racks that are actually repurposed XBoxes.

Cutler working on a UNIX-like system? Did hell just froze over and I missed it?

See the last 5 minutes from his interview, done last year on Dave's garage YouTube channel.

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#244

Post by FirmwareBurner »

reactordev wrote: post #241
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s as if it’s taught in business school or something, how to throw colleagues under the bus. You're overreaching. Business school doesn't need to teach that, that's just human nature being driven by greed and survival of the fittest, the base blocks of capitalism.

I refuse to believe that. I’ve seen completely normal humans treat each other with respect in the workplace, using data for decision making and accepting the data. It doesn’t have to be King of the Hill. If I see an org start playing squid games, I’m out. I don’t care how much money I lose or what. I’m out.

> I’ve seen completely normal humans treat each other with respect in the workplace, using data for decision making and accepting the data.

Yes, and once the VC money dries out or the line goes down and the layoffs are on the table, they'll be at each other's throats to make sure the others go on the chopping block and not them.

Human nature is all about survival. People who are elevated beyond human nature are privileged people who don't live in a zero sum environment where every day is a fight for survival or those who are spiritually rich and can just as well adapt to homelessness as a lifestyle.

Let's take for example Nordic countries which are relatively peaceful and low crime due to welfare state, but if for example, all the food in their supermarkets were to suddenly vanish overnight with no way to replenish it quickly, then that peaceful society would flip into a survival of the fittest society where police and army would be the first to use their guns to secure food for themselves and their families.

You see this in the animal studies, where if they only give food to some monkeys, then the other monkey beat the others to steal their food.

The behavior you're seeing in the corporate world is an extension of that, not something needed to be taught. Never bet against human nature and the survival instinct, as all those who did, have been eliminated from the gene pool.

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#245

Post by hulitu »

pjmlp wrote: post #224
chrisandchris wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have zero interest in the Win11 UI [...] As has the rest of the world, and we will just put it on the list of UI frameworks Microsoft did not completly implement, fully support or considering "the default". So we stay stuck with the status quo: There's no official UI for Windows, still.

There is Win32, that has made us company for several decades, is kind of ok, definitely much better than Motif, the official UI for much UNIXes, before Linux took over.

In Motif, i can set the shadowThickness as much as i want. /s

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#246

Post by aprilnya »

_fat_santa wrote: post #95
paavohtl wrote: post #59

I am worried about the future of native UI technologies on Windows. Traditionally at least the developers of operating systems have eaten their own dogfood and have at least tried to implement well-performing & visually consistent native applications to serve as an example to others. Windows 11 has largely done the opposite. Windows has had minimal but perfectly functional native email and calendar apps at least sinc…

The issue I see with Windows 11's UI is they seem to focus too much on pushing new apps / features and not enough focus on catching up some of the older tools within Windows. Take for example the Control Panel which is a reskinned version of the same one that shipped with Windows 7. And I'm sure there are tools buried within the OS that probably date back to the 2000/XP days. Windows 11 looks great if you just look a…

Control Panel is definitely a bad example, I do see them working little by little, update by update, to integrate everything into Settings

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#247

Post by esseph »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #162
pjmlp wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What to expect when new interns have no clue about Windows, have been educated with macOS and ChromeOS, and the design team carries Apple devices? Windows 98 introduced Active Desktop, and still, not as many webviews all over the place. MSHTML was the first Electron.

This was already a thing 20 years ago. Students weren’t have any experience with windows, it was something companies used, and today even that has gone away.

I promise you it has not "gone away" which is why Azure is so popular.

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#248

Post by ksec »

marcosdumay wrote: post #186
tough wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so microsoft gave up and the web won? swift ui apps have some webkit views like the app store, music app etc

Well, to be fair, Microsoft decided to kill the Windows API that everybody knew, and spent about a decade and half creating a replacement every few years that couldn't actually replace the original thing. It's hard to survive that. Honestly, I don't even know what the GP is talking about when they say the devs don't know "Windows".

>and spent about a decade and half creating a replacement

I often feels modern Apple is the same. I mean we are 10 years into Swift, 6 years into Swift UI.

And it feels they are still in beta.

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#249

Post by olyjohn »

aprilnya wrote: post #246
_fat_santa wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue I see with Windows 11's UI is they seem to focus too much on pushing new apps / features and not enough focus on catching up some of the older tools within Windows. Take for example the Control Panel which is a reskinned version of the same one that shipped with Windows 7. And I'm sure there are tools buried within the OS that probably date back to the 2000/XP days. Windows 11 looks great if you just look a…

Control Panel is definitely a bad example, I do see them working little by little, update by update, to integrate everything into Settings

It's been like 10 years since that settings panel came out with Windows 8. How many more years until it's done?

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#250

Post by aprilnya »

olyjohn wrote: post #249
aprilnya wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Control Panel is definitely a bad example, I do see them working little by little, update by update, to integrate everything into Settings

It's been like 10 years since that settings panel came out with Windows 8. How many more years until it's done?

I do agree they didn’t do much in the 8/10 days but definitely feels like there’s a big push since 11
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