Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I tried Servo

spacebar.news

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 256 posts

Re: I tried Servo

#241

Post by jraph »

nicoburns wrote: post #118
goku12 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (Taffy [0]) that can be used standalone and is widely used accross the Rust UI ecosystem, including in the Blitz [1] web engine (which also uses Taffy for Flexbox and Block layout) This is the first time I hear about Blitz. Looks equally interesting and ambitious. It is probably the real undercover web engine. Servo was widely known around when Rust debuted.

> this is the first time I hear about Blitz. Looks equally interesting and ambitious. It is probably the real undercover web engine It's certainly a newer and lesser-known engine. It's mostly been me working on it for the past year or so (with a couple of other occasional contributors). But I do have funding to work on it full time through DioxusLabs (who are building Dioxus Native - a Flutter / React Native competit…

> or Discord

Oh, no, why do alternative web browser engine devs love Discord so much? The Ladybird project also does this… that's certainly a barrier to entry for would be contributors attached to free software and software freedom… It's a shame, I suspect the intersection between people like this and people interested in alternative web browser engines is not small (comparatively speaking)…

Anyway, it's nice to see alternative web browser engines appearing like this. We need browser tech that does not rely on Big Ad funding. Even better if they cooperate on some common libraries like this.

Thanks for working on such things.

Web browser engines have always interested me, I might one day jump in.

Re: I tried Servo

#242

Post by nicoburns »

jraph wrote: post #241
nicoburns wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is the first time I hear about Blitz. Looks equally interesting and ambitious. It is probably the real undercover web engine It's certainly a newer and lesser-known engine. It's mostly been me working on it for the past year or so (with a couple of other occasional contributors). But I do have funding to work on it full time through DioxusLabs (who are building Dioxus Native - a Flutter / React Native competit…

> or Discord Oh, no, why do alternative web browser engine devs love Discord so much? The Ladybird project also does this… that's certainly a barrier to entry for would be contributors attached to free software and software freedom… It's a shame, I suspect the intersection between people like this and people interested in alternative web browser engines is not small (comparatively speaking)… Anyway, it's nice to see…

Ironically the rationale for using Discord is that people are more likely to join it! It may be a case that this depend on the community one is targeting. Discord is popular among Rust developers, but perhaps less so among browser developers. If Zulip is more acceptable to you, then I also hang out in the Linebender Zulip [0]

Linebender [1] is an open source collective whose 2D renderer (Vello [2]) and text layout library (Parley [3]) we have adopted (and are actively contributing back to) as another part of our "make everything modular" strategy in Blitz.

[0]: https://xi.zulipchat.com/ [1]: https://github.com/linebender [2]: https://github.com/linebender/vello [3]: https://github.com/linebender/parley

Re: I tried Servo

#243

Post by nicoburns »

goku12 wrote: post #180
nicoburns wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is the first time I hear about Blitz. Looks equally interesting and ambitious. It is probably the real undercover web engine It's certainly a newer and lesser-known engine. It's mostly been me working on it for the past year or so (with a couple of other occasional contributors). But I do have funding to work on it full time through DioxusLabs (who are building Dioxus Native - a Flutter / React Native competit…

You have my admiration and support for this work! I guess it goes without saying how monumental and critical the work on alternative engines like servo and libweb are. We are genuinely tired of the current duopoly (I'm starting to lose hope with Firefox and gecko as well. They seem to have priorities different to our expectations.) But I guess we now have one more to look forward to, thanks to you and the rest of the…

> You have my admiration and support for this work!

Thanks!

> Personally, I hope to pitch in as soon as I have some spare time available.

Amazing - maybe see you around :)

Re: I tried Servo

#244

Post by jraph »

nicoburns wrote: post #242
jraph wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or Discord Oh, no, why do alternative web browser engine devs love Discord so much? The Ladybird project also does this… that's certainly a barrier to entry for would be contributors attached to free software and software freedom… It's a shame, I suspect the intersection between people like this and people interested in alternative web browser engines is not small (comparatively speaking)… Anyway, it's nice to see…

Ironically the rationale for using Discord is that people are more likely to join it! It may be a case that this depend on the community one is targeting. Discord is popular among Rust developers, but perhaps less so among browser developers. If Zulip is more acceptable to you, then I also hang out in the Linebender Zulip [0] Linebender [1] is an open source collective whose 2D renderer (Vello [2]) and text layout li…

> Ironically the rationale for using Discord is that people are more likely to join it!

Everybody says this, this ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy :-)

I guess it's difficult to avoid if the whole rust community is on it (which I didn't know, that's quite bad news for me xD)

> Linebender [1] is an open source collective whose 2D renderer (Vello [2]) and text layout library (Parley [3]) we have adopted (and are actively contributing back to) as another part of our "make everything modular" strategy in Blitz.

You keep on mentioning cool stuff you are working on!

I'll be sure to check these things out. I wouldn't mind installing Zulip (actually, I'm quite interested in trying it at some point) should I start working on these stuff one day.

Thanks again!

Re: I tried Servo

#245

Post by nicoburns »

jraph wrote: post #244
nicoburns wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically the rationale for using Discord is that people are more likely to join it! It may be a case that this depend on the community one is targeting. Discord is popular among Rust developers, but perhaps less so among browser developers. If Zulip is more acceptable to you, then I also hang out in the Linebender Zulip [0] Linebender [1] is an open source collective whose 2D renderer (Vello [2]) and text layout li…

> Ironically the rationale for using Discord is that people are more likely to join it! Everybody says this, this ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy :-) I guess it's difficult to avoid if the whole rust community is on it (which I didn't know, that's quite bad news for me xD) > Linebender [1] is an open source collective whose 2D renderer (Vello [2]) and text layout library (Parley [3]) we have adopted (and are…

> I guess it's difficult to avoid if the whole rust community is on it (which I didn't know, that's quite bad news for me xD)

The actual compiler development is also on Zulip (https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/). And I still consider the /r/rust subreddit the real hub of the rust community in genreal. But I'm about 20 different Discord servers for various specific Rust projects (help!).

> I wouldn't mind installing Zulip (actually, I'm quite interested in trying it at some point) should I start working on these stuff one day.

A quick mention that you don't actually need to install Zulip: you can just use the web version, although you probably do want the app on mobile (the desktop version is just a wrapper of the website, but the mobile app is Flutter-based).

(also true of Discord, although it remains less free and open)

Re: I tried Servo

#246

Post by ninetyninenine »

Klaster_1 wrote: post #228
ninetyninenine wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Form a design team to reduce the amount of primitives in html such that I can do everything that html + css does but with the minimum amount of primitives.

Something tells me with that approach you'd get emergent complexity that different people handle in a different manner, eventually leading to strong incentive to add new, higher level primitives. That's one of driving forces behind current state of HTML and JS and why JQuery and TABLE layouts went out of fashion. Sounds like a people thing, not a technical one.

There will always be stronger incentive to create higher level entities.

It’s just you need to create an initial set of primitives such that those higher level entities can be formed as a composition of the initial set of primitives.

So maybe not even start with html. Create the set of primitives such that I can create custom tags that does exactly what html does.

Like react is the sort of a framework that allows for composition of tags. But the problem is we have too many primitives.

Re: I tried Servo

#247

Post by infogulch »

YmiYugy wrote: post #188
xdfgh1112 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is donation funded with no reliance on outside parties. They don't have to inject ads into pages like brave did or sell out to Google compromising their independence on web standards. They're ahead of Servo already anyway, and better funded.

In the last 24h alone Chromium merged almost 900 CLs (their equivalent to a pull request) into the src/Chromium repo, Ladybird had 7. Yes a project that started fresh a couple of year ago with decades of hindsight can be more efficient than one started 16 year ago as the fork of a fork, but if I had to guess they'll sooner or later reach a point where they have implemented the low hanging fruit and chromium moves fas…

> Chromium merged almost 900 CLs ... Ladybird had 7

Imagine being in your annual review and your boss has a chart of your performance compared to your peers and it's just the count of PRs you merged. You begin to protest that merged PRs is not a good metric for contributions, then he switches to the next slide which is just this comment you made on HN...

Re: I tried Servo

#248

Post by yencabulator »

rollcat wrote: post #143
jonkoops wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to be honest that I don't really understand the appeal of Ladybird from a purely technical perspective. It is written in C++, just like all the existing engines (yes there is some Swift, but it is negligible), so what benefit does it provide over Gecko or Blink? With Servo, I can see there is a distinct technical design around security and parallelism.

Many many factors to consider. Simplistic take: KHTML was picked up by Apple because of its clean design and codebase; there's an extra 30 years of accumulated improvements in C++; you don't write stuff in Rust 1.0 either. Also: Andreas has worked on Webkit/Blink. He knew what he was doing when he started the project, even if it was "just for fun". Linux started under similar circumstances.

Linux started under circumstances of Linus wanting to learn 386 assembler. He got two processes writing alternating As and Bs to demonstrate 386 multitasking. Linus had to find SunOS docs etc to copy system call signatures from. It's truly an accidental success story, and while Linus is smart & capable he sure as hell did not "know what he was doing", the whole point was to learn and fiddle with it.

Starting a new browser project without a solid security architecture seems just a bad idea to me. It's such a hostile operating environment. Personal computing in the early 90s was a very different place.

Re: I tried Servo

#250

Post by jqpabc123 »

drsnow wrote: post #230
thoroughburro wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Check Mozilla’s own numbers if you don’t believe tracking stats. https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity

Firefox users also tend to disable telemetry and any kind of phoning home whatsoever.

Possible perhaps --- but definitely not easy and thus highly unlikely on a broad scale. And this is by design.

The most *easy* and sustainable way to achieve this is by using a fork of Firefox --- aka LibreWolf.

https://github.com/K3V1991/Disable-Firefox-Telemetry-and-Dat...

Post reply on HN